New cannon pinion tightener upperer

[Neverenoughwatches]

Eyup everyone, how you doin ? 

Assuming I've chosen the correct section, not quite tool making, or adaptation as we often do. This is more of a tool re- application. This week i bought from ebay a cannon pinion tightener although some disagreement as to this. I'm yet to discover it in a vintage tool catalog that John kindly posted up. But i did find another tool that i was trying to identify a little while ago which we can have a look at later, hopefuly that one has a good design as it will be very useful for a particularly difficult proceedure. So this is a great little hack tool that WW suggested which i think came from Nucejoe apologies if i have that wrong, i have always thought credit were credit is due especially when it comes to ingenuity. Presenting the cannon pinion tightener upper clippers. I will have a little play this afternoon with some spare cannon pinions and then add my findings afterwards.

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Eyup everyone, how you doin ? 

Assuming I've chosen the correct section, not quite tool making, or adaptation as we often do. This is more of a tool re- application. This week i bought from ebay a cannon pinion tightener although some disagreement as to this. I'm yet to discover it in a vintage tool catalog that John kindly posted up. But i did find another tool that i was trying to identify a little while ago which we can have a look at later, hopefuly that one has a good design as it will be very useful for a particularly difficult proceedure. So this is a great little hack tool that WW suggested which i think came from Nucejoe apologies if i have that wrong, i have always thought credit were credit is due especially when it comes to ingenuity. Presenting the cannon pinion tightener upper clippers. I will have a little play this afternoon with some spare cannon pinions and then add my findings afterwards.

Hello again I'm back here to add regards to the cannon pinion tightener. Just had a ten mins play. 1 cannon pinion, 1 smoothing broach,  1 re -applied function nail clipper.  Cp  slid along a hand spun  broach until the broach grabbed the cp and spun the cp. Broach then  marked at this point. Cp in cp nipper, cp nipped to a visible nipping indent. Cp again slid along hund spun broach until broach again grabbed and spun cp . Broach marked. A definite reduction to the inner bore is made. The  indents made were more of a lengthy bend as opposed to a sharp detailed point of contact inside the bore. How this will affect the cp's fitting is unknown until a real repair use is carried out as this cp is from a scrap quartz movement,  i did choose the largest i could find. I am unsure if the indents have to made at a specific point along the cp length to match up with a detail on the center wheel arbor. Any extra info would be appreciated  

13 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hello again I'm back here to add regards to the cannon pinion tightener. Just had a ten mins play. 1 cannon pinion, 1 smoothing broach,  1 re -applied function nail clipper.  Cp  slid along a hand spun  broach until the broach grabbed the cp and spun the cp. Broach then  marked at this point. Cp in cp nipper, cp nipped to a visible nipping indent. Cp again slid along hund spun broach until broach again grabbed and spun cp . Broach marked. A definite reduction to the inner bore is made. The  indents made were more of a lengthy bend as opposed to a sharp detailed point of contact inside the bore. How this will affect the cp's fitting is unknown until a real repair use is carried out as this cp is from a scrap quartz movement,  i did choose the largest i could find. I am unsure if the indents have to made at a specific point along the cp length to match up with a detail on the center wheel arbor. Any extra info would be appreciated  

I feel i have just answered my own question.   . Which also shows how much attention i have paid to the inside bore of a cannon pinion and the detailing on a center wheel arbor .

Edited September 11, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[dadistic]

Did you dull the blades or use them as found?

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 minutes ago, dadistic said:

Did you dull the blades or use them as found?

I thought i would try them as is first. Easier to soften the edge than have to resharpen them. I'm thinking a support inside the bore to reduce bending and increase sharp detailing. I was tempted to nip the cp up while it was on the broach but i didn't want to ruin the broach, i will look for something else to use.

[Shane]

@Neverenoughwatches any chance you could put a machine screw in from the bottom as an adjustable stop.  I would round the end to a full hemisphere.  That would make adjustments much easier.

Shane 

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 minutes ago, Shane said:

@Neverenoughwatches any chance you could put a machine screw in from the bottom as an adjustable stop.  I would round the end to a full hemisphere.  That would make adjustments much easier.

Shane 

I would think i could do that and was thinking about that initially shane but wasn't completely convinced it was necessary. The lever action on the cutter does provide good pressure control. I trialled it under a microscope and was able to see very clearly the effect it was having on the cannon pinion. I am curious to know the comparison between  a dedicated tool. I am unsure as to how a professionally tightened CP would look inside.

[HectorLooi]

I did spot weld a nut to the body of the nail clipper and added a locking nut. But I still feel safer having a smooth broach in the tube of the CP. 

[watchweasol]

Hectors design is the modded one and is a deal safer than a raw cutter,  a piece of brass/Copper wire (Tapered) inside the Cp is best as its soft enough to allow a decent indent without cutting the CP.  It should be noted that the adjustment is done by degrees and test fitted after every try.   I mounted my clipper on a wooden block to provide a stable base and makes the one handed operation easier.  You will probably find the square jawed clippers better instead of the curved jaw ones.  I believe they are for Toe nails and the curved are for finger nails. Available from any chemist/Apothacarys shop. 

[Shane]

@HectorLooiYes, that looks very serviceable and as @watchweasolhas said, approach your setting cautiously.  Just one extra thought, this is spring steel, for the most consistent results, the setting screw should be as close to directly under the lever's fulcrum as possible.  Thank you for the photo.

Shane

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, watchweasol said:

Hectors design is the modded one and is a deal safer than a raw cutter,  a piece of brass/Copper wire (Tapered) inside the Cp is best as its soft enough to allow a decent indent without cutting the CP.  It should be noted that the adjustment is done by degrees and test fitted after every try.   I mounted my clipper on a wooden block to provide a stable base and makes the one handed operation easier.  You will probably find the square jawed clippers better instead of the curved jaw ones.  I believe they are for Toe nails and the curved are for finger nails. Available from any chemist/Apothacarys shop. 

Hi ww. Yes the one i bought is curved and a bit larger than i would have liked. I will take your advice and  get a square edged one. I like the idea of the copper insert. I do have a reel of .7mm that i aquired for making dial feet. I have noticed that only 2 trials have started to damaged the jaws. Incidentally the dedicated tool i bought last week works extremely well, with very good adjustment and a creates a perfect indent inside the bore. In respect to my previous enquiry does the indent have to be at a specific point to suit the extended arbor on the center wheel ?

Edited September 12, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[Shane]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

In respect to my previous enquiry does the indent have to be at a specific point to suit the extended arbor on the center wheel ?

I would say it depends on the detail on the center shaft.  Best to make that determination on a case by case basis.

Shane

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, Shane said:

I would say it depends on the detail on the center shaft.  Best to make that determination on a case by case basis.

Shane

Thanks Shane. Its something i will have to start looking at. I am assuming the internal indent slots over the ridges on a CW arbor creating its lock on the arbor. Tbh its not something I've ever taken much notice of. Its not until you have an issue.

[dadistic]

This is an illustration from Fried's Watch Repairer's Manual. hopefully it's clear enough that you can get an idea of where to place the nick. This book has a whole chapter on adjusting cannon pinions, well worth getting if you run across a copy.

[Neverenoughwatches]

29 minutes ago, dadistic said:

This is an illustration from Fried's Watch Repairer's Manual. hopefully it's clear enough that you can get an idea of where to place the nick. This book has a whole chapter on adjusting cannon pinions, well worth getting if you run across a copy.

Thanks Dave, a useful piece of information. I thought there might be a staking accessory to do the job.

[canthus]

This topic covers my version of similar tool. I have used it on several occasions. 

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/13621-cannon-pinion-tightening-tool/#comment-121487