What might this dinky little gadget be ?

[Neverenoughwatches]

Eyup Yorkshire peeps, morning Uk, hello the rest of the world. How are we all doin today ? on this amazing planet we call home . So here we have a little gadget i picked up off of fleapay. There is a cracking seller on there I've got to know that goes all over the uk buying bits and pieces of watchmaking and engineering stuff from auctions. He has great feedback and has even phoned me a couple of times to give me advice on what to look out for and to specifically ask me what i want. And as a bonus always gives me great deals and discounts. When i have my full tool collection i will then reveal his name lol. So he's sent me this. Any ideas ? I think i know what it is and that tallies with his idea on what it is. 

[HectorLooi]

A cannon pinion tightener maybe?

[nickelsilver]

Any chance of a pic with light from the viewing angle?

[Shane]

Any better photos.  There's very little detail to work with.  First thought is a saw tooth setting tool but can't tell.

1 minute ago, nickelsilver said:

Any chance of a pic with light from the viewing angle?

He's in Australia the sun is always on the wrong side.

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

Any chance of a pic with light from the viewing angle?

 

[Shane]

It looks like the threaded part protruding from the top is acme thread while the threaded part coming out the front is standard machine thread.  That suggests the blade is ment to exect some downward force and the screw in the front holds it still after the fact.  The pin in the side looks as if it is meant to insert or expel something from under the blade once the force is applied.  The surface finish on the blade also suggests that it has been hardened.

From the pictures, the whole thing appears "as cast", does the bottom look like it was machined to interact with something else or just machined to be perpendicular to another surface at a predetermined hight?  Is there a detail missing/broken on the end of the sliding pin?

At this time, I can't think of what to might be for.

Shane

[dadistic]

I'd guess canon pinion tightener.

[HectorLooi]

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-watchmakers-tool-cannon-1475665166

Found this on the web.

[grsnovi]

@HectorLooiwins, thanks for playing.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, Shane said:

It looks like the threaded part protruding from the top is acme thread while the threaded part coming out the front is standard machine thread.  That suggests the blade is ment to exect some downward force and the screw in the front holds it still after the fact.  The pin in the side looks as if it is meant to insert or expel something from under the blade once the force is applied.  The surface finish on the blade also suggests that it has been hardened.

From the pictures, the whole thing appears "as cast", does the bottom look like it was machined to interact with something else or just machined to be perpendicular to another surface at a predetermined hight?  Is there a detail missing/broken on the end of the sliding pin?

At this time, I can't think of what to might be for.

Shane

I thought you were going for it there shane. You had all the parts worked out. 9 out of 10 for effort. Lol

19 minutes ago, grsnovi said:

@HectorLooiwins, thanks for playing.

Thank you Mr. Adjudicator

29 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-watchmakers-tool-cannon-1475665166

Found this on the web.

Good guess from the start Hector 10 out of 10 sir .

 

3 hours ago, dadistic said:

I'd guess canon pinion tightener.

That was the seller's description , 1 have seen a variety of others with a similar set up. Not usually a bench style. 

11 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I thought you were going for it there shane. You had all the parts worked out. 9 out of 10 for effort. Lol

Thank you Mr. Adjudicator

Good guess from the start Hector 10 out of 10 sir .

 

That was the seller's description , 1 have seen a variety of others with a similar set up. Not usually a bench style. 

So there we have it 1 cannon pinion tightener upper. It will probably be used once every six months lol. As a fact bergeon sell one that looks to be little more than an adjustable stop pair of end pliers for a staggering $180 . An electricaian's  wire stipper could be adapted by reworking the jaws

[grsnovi]

4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

An electricaian's  wire stipper could be adapted by reworking the jaws

Yep.

[watchweasol]

A pair of large size nail clippers with the edges dulled down works just as well. if its drilled and a stop screw fitted its safe as well as the distance is governed by the stop.  Cant take credit for this one I believe Nucejoe was the first to post it.  Total cost around £3.00

[Shane]

This tool might have been described for that purpose and some may have even successfully used it for that.  But, the fact that we now see two similar designs, from probably two different companies, as well as all the reasons mentioned above.  I think it looks somewhat ill suited and over kill for that fiddley, singular task and it was meant for something else.  

Shane 

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 minutes ago, Shane said:

This tool might have been described for that purpose and some may have even successfully used it for that.  But, the fact that we now see two similar designs, from probably two different companies, as well as all the reasons mentioned above.  I think it looks somewhat ill suited and over kill for that fiddley, singular task and it was meant for something else.  

Shane 

Ooooh thank you shane. Does that mean i have a duel purpose tool ? Bonus lol. I've seen similar designs labelled as canon pinion Tightyupperers. I'll look for one and post up.  I agree overkill considering the nail clipper hack, but it must have looked cool enough in its day to have a rich watchmaker have it on his bench to admire.

[nickelsilver]

I agree this isn't for cannon pinions. The typical commercial cannon pinion tightening tool has a thin blade upper and a corresponding one lower, and usually a sliding weight that is used like a hammer. The support goes in the relieved center section, like the upper blade does (in the original "dents", both of them). This tool won't support it properly.

 

 

 

The one above is the Bergeon (if you zoom in there's a chip in the upper blade but it still works!).

Edited September 8, 2022 by nickelsilver

[Neverenoughwatches]

40 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

I agree this isn't for cannon pinions. The typical commercial cannon pinion tightening tool has a thin blade upper and a corresponding one lower, and usually a sliding weight that is used like a hammer. The support goes in the relieved center section, like the upper blade does (in the original "dents", both of them). This tool won't support it properly.

 

 

 

The one above is the Bergeon (if you zoom in there's a chip in the upper blade but it still works!).

That looks way cooler than mine and even more overkill tbh. Just realised that the one i have would close up the cannon pinion bore along its length as opposed to its width thinking that was how it would be fitted in the tool. Maybe would bend it if placed the other way being unsupported directly below the top blade. Badly designed cannon pinion tightener ? I'm wondering what it is for now.

2 hours ago, watchweasol said:

A pair of large size nail clippers with the edges dulled down works just as well. if its drilled and a stop screw fitted its safe as well as the distance is governed by the stop.  Cant take credit for this one I believe Nucejoe was the first to post it.  Total cost around £3.00

Love that idea ww. I'm thinking the depth control would be way better anyway with the counter action of the lever on the jaws 

10 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

That looks way cooler than mine and even more overkill tbh. Just realised that the one i have would close up the cannon pinion bore along its length as opposed to its width thinking that was how it would be fitted in the tool. Maybe would bend it if placed the other way being unsupported directly below the top blade. Badly designed cannon pinion tightener ? I'm wondering what it is for now.

Love that idea ww. I'm thinking the depth control would be way better anyway with the counter action of the lever on the jaws 

This bugged me so I've just had another look the blade can actually spin around so it can be positioned anywhere on the cannon pinion. Tighten one side at a time ? I think the cannon pinion tightener is bach on lol. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[JohnR725]

what becomes interesting in watch repair is the time span that watch repair has been in existence. So if you gather a group of watchmakers together and start discussing tools at some point in time mystery tools will come up. most people that are new to watch repair won't notice this because all your tools you acquire you know exactly what they are. But any of us that have gathered tools up over time will end up with mystery tools.

one of the ways helpful for identifying mystery tools is the catalog. Such a catalog can be found at the link below. Scroll down the page and you can download or in a variety of formats so you can have your own copy. What becomes interesting is notice how many pages and how old is this catalog? One of the reasons I point out the age is how many of the tools do you recognize how many are currently sitting on your bench. How many haven't changed in the last hundred years plus?

then minor problem with all of this is when the various watch factories were liquidated their tools got spread out across the universe so you can also end up with factory tools that nobody has any idea what their four and unfortunately there's no catalog. But still this will get you started a little light reading you should be able to breeze through this in no time.

https://archive.org/details/20thcenturycatal00purd

 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

what becomes interesting in watch repair is the time span that watch repair has been in existence. So if you gather a group of watchmakers together and start discussing tools at some point in time mystery tools will come up. most people that are new to watch repair won't notice this because all your tools you acquire you know exactly what they are. But any of us that have gathered tools up over time will end up with mystery tools.

one of the ways helpful for identifying mystery tools is the catalog. Such a catalog can be found at the link below. Scroll down the page and you can download or in a variety of formats so you can have your own copy. What becomes interesting is notice how many pages and how old is this catalog? One of the reasons I point out the age is how many of the tools do you recognize how many are currently sitting on your bench. How many haven't changed in the last hundred years plus?

then minor problem with all of this is when the various watch factories were liquidated their tools got spread out across the universe so you can also end up with factory tools that nobody has any idea what their four and unfortunately there's no catalog. But still this will get you started a little light reading you should be able to breeze through this in no time.

https://archive.org/details/20thcenturycatal00purd

 

 

John. You are a bloody marvel mate . In fact you should be in the next Marvel movie so I'm putting your name forward to Disney productions.