Jump to content

National Electric Watch Cleaning Machine


Recommended Posts

18 minutes ago, luiazazrambo said:

Hi Seth, nope I have not got that, even though I got the same version MK. VR. Try to remove that screws and extra tube so you could get an access to the motor shaft. Take care, lui

Hi there, Many thanks for your reply I have removed the motor from the machine taken the 3 flange screws out and as you will see from the attached photos the basket shaft is still about 1/2" below the gap when I move the spring loaded cover tube down.The end of this tube is hitting the actual basket holder so tomorrow I am going to gently cut about 1/2"---5/8" off the end of this tube with my Dremel as it's only soft alloy and this will allow I to get a screwdriver in between the end of the shaft and the motor as you have done.will keep you advised,Regards,Seth.

IMG_20210105_161507568.jpg

IMG_20210105_161611115.jpg

IMG_20210105_161654537.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 175
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Stephen, the brushes look as though they still have plenty of meat on them. Have you had a look at the commutator? It may need cleaning. Have a look at this: m.youtube.com/watch?v=MkBLwUG_AdU

Thanks guys. Rather than getting new brushes I've just done as suggested and cleaned everything. Now working as good as new - well, as good as a decades old machine anyway. Pity the speed control no l

If the bush is sintered then it will hold lubricant inside the material.

Posted Images

5 hours ago, Seth said:

Hi there, Many thanks for your reply I have removed the motor from the machine taken the 3 flange screws out and as you will see from the attached photos the basket shaft is still about 1/2" below the gap when I move the spring loaded cover tube down.The end of this tube is hitting the actual basket holder so tomorrow I am going to gently cut about 1/2"---5/8" off the end of this tube with my Dremel as it's only soft alloy and this will allow I to get a screwdriver in between the end of the shaft and the motor as you have done.will keep you advised,Regards,Seth.

IMG_20210105_161507568.jpg

IMG_20210105_161611115.jpg

IMG_20210105_161654537.jpg

Is that gap not enough to put your screwdriver in and twist it before you cut anything? I used some penetrating oil i had at hand, but i doubt it helped. You still can try to use something, just give some time for it to have a chance to penetrate/work. I assume your basket shaft is one piece and you cannot take the bottom off. Just like mine?

Could you please send me a picture about the place where the motor cable is attached to the motor case? Is yours is as clumsy as mine?

Like this:

IMG_20200714_151948.thumb.jpg.f214aaa54f3bf485380ece7f4781968f.jpg

I am going to try to sort it out like this, but i dont know it yet if it will work or not:

IMG_20210105_212616.thumb.jpg.dc24eda98c99c367fb5a0ccd6aaf6659.jpg

IMG_20210105_212757.thumb.jpg.e9f5ae98a77b3aca4e92607411a7221c.jpg

IMG_20210105_212805.thumb.jpg.a41945f738feb034c8d7175ad6e61604.jpg

Edited by luiazazrambo
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, luiazazrambo said:

Is that gap not enough to put your screwdriver in and twist it before you cut anything? I used some penetrating oil i had at hand, but i doubt it helped. You still can try to use something, just give some time for it to have a chance to penetrate/work. I assume your basket shaft is one piece and you cannot take the bottom off. Just like mine?

Could you please send me a picture about the place where the motor cable is attached to the motor case? Is yours is as clumsy as mine?

Like this:

IMG_20200714_151948.thumb.jpg.f214aaa54f3bf485380ece7f4781968f.jpg

I am going to try to sort it out like this, but i dont know it yet if it will work or not:

IMG_20210105_212616.thumb.jpg.dc24eda98c99c367fb5a0ccd6aaf6659.jpg

IMG_20210105_212757.thumb.jpg.e9f5ae98a77b3aca4e92607411a7221c.jpg

IMG_20210105_212805.thumb.jpg.a41945f738feb034c8d7175ad6e61604.jpg

Good Morning,Well I can now finally see the basket shaft as I have removed about 1/2" from the bottom of the spring loaded cover tube with a fine Jewellers Saw.I have soaked the basket shaft where the motor shaft join is with Plus Gas release fluid so I will try to move the shaft later today.I enclose photos of the motor and shaft assembly,the cable entry to the motor and the new quick release connector that I used to connect the motor also a photo of the connector kit that I purchased from Amazon.How far down inside the basket shaft does the motor shaft go down?? Is it all the way to the bottom or how long is the motor shaft?? Will keep you posted on the problem.Regards and keep safe,Seth.

IMG_20210106_053354684.jpg

IMG_20210106_053430523_MP.jpg

IMG_20210106_053446011.jpg

IMG_20210106_053506132_BURST000_COVER.jpg

IMG_20210106_053612892.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Seth said:

Good Morning,Well I can now finally see the basket shaft as I have removed about 1/2" from the bottom of the spring loaded cover tube with a fine Jewellers Saw.I have soaked the basket shaft where the motor shaft join is with Plus Gas release fluid so I will try to move the shaft later today.I enclose photos of the motor and shaft assembly,the cable entry to the motor and the new quick release connector that I used to connect the motor also a photo of the connector kit that I purchased from Amazon.How far down inside the basket shaft does the motor shaft go down?? Is it all the way to the bottom or how long is the motor shaft?? Will keep you posted on the problem.Regards and keep safe,Seth.

IMG_20210106_053354684.jpg

IMG_20210106_053430523_MP.jpg

IMG_20210106_053446011.jpg

IMG_20210106_053506132_BURST000_COVER.jpg

IMG_20210106_053612892.jpg

Hi there, Good News,I have finally managed to get the shaft off the motor shaft and now it's just a matter of cleaning the internal dia of the basket shaft as it's very corroded.I purchased a load of cleaning machine baskets and odds last year for £19-00 on eBay and now I am going to modify the spare shaft to fit the Elma 3 tier basket frame and baskets that were with all the parts that I purchased so that I can either use the original National Watch Cleaning Machine basket and shaft or,use the modified shaft with the Elma 3 tier basket frame and baskets by just swapping out the basket shafts.Photos enclosed of the motor,shaft and spring jar cover and of all the basket parts that I purchased last year from eBay.Regards and keep safe during this tough time,Seth.

IMG_20210106_100637368.jpg

IMG_20210106_100823833.jpg

IMG_20210106_100401334.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Seth said:

Hi there, Good News,I have finally managed to get the shaft off the motor shaft and now it's just a matter of cleaning the internal dia of the basket shaft as it's very corroded.I purchased a load of cleaning machine baskets and odds last year for £19-00 on eBay and now I am going to modify the spare shaft to fit the Elma 3 tier basket frame and baskets that were with all the parts that I purchased so that I can either use the original National Watch Cleaning Machine basket and shaft or,use the modified shaft with the Elma 3 tier basket frame and baskets by just swapping out the basket shafts.Photos enclosed of the motor,shaft and spring jar cover and of all the basket parts that I purchased last year from eBay.Regards and keep safe during this tough time,Seth.

IMG_20210106_100637368.jpg

IMG_20210106_100823833.jpg

IMG_20210106_100401334.jpg

Well done! ? I have a different motor compared to yours. That is a nice set of baskets, it was said before that they are rare like rocking horse poo. And good price too. The last national basket set i saw too late on eBay was £75. I bought another cleaning machine with basket, but I did not see that it was pick up only - well the time when i checked it was not mentioned. I don't know what happens now as I cannot drive due to the lockdown.

Post pics as you progress please.

Edited by luiazazrambo
Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, luiazazrambo said:

Well done! ? I have a different motor compared to yours. That is a nice set of baskets, it was said before that they are rare like rocking horse poo. And good price too. The last national basket set i saw too late on eBay was £75. I bought another cleaning machine with basket, but I did not see that it was pick up only - well the time when i checked it was not mentioned. I don't know what happens now as I cannot drive due to the lockdown.

Post pics as you progress please.

Hi there,Well I have reassembled the National Watch Cleaning Machine with the original basket shaft and I have cleaned all the corroded rubbish from out of the basket shaft and it now glides on and off the motor shaft great!! The machine runs OK as well so this afternoon I am going to set up the spare shaft in my small lathe and reduce the dia of the head where it connects to the Elma basket frame as it is smaller than the National Watch Cleaning Machine basket assembly.Then I will be able to use eithe shaft with either the National or the Elma basket set up.Will keep you posted on this ongoing project.Regards and keep safe during this tough time,Seth.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay so I have a sintered spherical bronze bearing, and while this instruction does not talk about the same motor it also has the same type of bearing: servicing the bearing

Seth, you might need to consider to re-lubricate yours, and I need to figure out how to access the bottom bearing, as so far I could not take the bottom motor case off...

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, luiazazrambo said:

Okay so I have a sintered spherical bronze bearing, and while this instruction does not talk about the same motor it also has the same type of bearing: servicing the bearing

Seth, you might need to consider to re-lubricate yours, and I need to figure out how to access the bottom bearing, as so far I could not take the bottom motor case off...

Hi there,I have lubricated both top and bottom motor bearings with HP Stihl Chainsaw Grease which is for the chain bearings on a chainsaw so that should be OK.If you see my photo with all the parts laid out you will see the bottom motor bearing which is uncovered by removing the spring loaded jar cover and there is a fibre washer sandwiched between two phosphor bronze washers this is all held in place by the flange on the spring loaded jar cover.The top bearing has a brass cover over it and the same set up with washers.So I removed the washers,packed the bearings with fresh grease and now it runs like a dream.I have turned the spare shaft down to 64mm dia at the head and Araldited 3 Blue Steel 3 mm pegs in to hold the basket assembly.I will let it harden overnight and send you photo tomorrow.Regards and keep safe during this tough time Seth.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Seth said:

Hi there,I have lubricated both top and bottom motor bearings with HP Stihl Chainsaw Grease which is for the chain bearings on a chainsaw so that should be OK.If you see my photo with all the parts laid out you will see the bottom motor bearing which is uncovered by removing the spring loaded jar cover and there is a fibre washer sandwiched between two phosphor bronze washers this is all held in place by the flange on the spring loaded jar cover.The top bearing has a brass cover over it and the same set up with washers.So I removed the washers,packed the bearings with fresh grease and now it runs like a dream.I have turned the spare shaft down to 64mm dia at the head and Araldited 3 Blue Steel 3 mm pegs in to hold the basket assembly.I will let it harden overnight and send you photo tomorrow.Regards and keep safe during this tough time Seth.

Ahh I see, you have ball bearings. Yes, a completely different motor. I wonder which one is older. Probably they are from the same period as they are both MK VRs, maybe they just used whatever motor they could acquire. Your's actually has a plate what says "National Electric Watch Cleaner".

I might try to take the bottom of the motor case off tonight. I am a bit worried that I ruin something, probably I have to use my rubber mallet.  

Edited by luiazazrambo
Link to post
Share on other sites

The bottom is a ball bearing, 608 double Z as far as I can see it, and unfortunately it needs to be replaced. First of all i have no tool to get it off. Maybe i visit my garage after the lock down, or need to be creative before it ends.

IMG_20210106_221118.thumb.jpg.4219a433a89e2817cb9ea0ccb069f8af.jpg

IMG_20210106_221031.thumb.jpg.0d5b6ff9daa4b25179ad2e5864f78da1.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, luiazazrambo said:

The bottom is a ball bearing, 608 double Z as far as I can see it, and unfortunately it needs to be replaced. First of all i have no tool to get it off. Maybe i visit my garage after the lock down, or need to be creative before it ends.

IMG_20210106_221118.thumb.jpg.4219a433a89e2817cb9ea0ccb069f8af.jpg

IMG_20210106_221031.thumb.jpg.0d5b6ff9daa4b25179ad2e5864f78da1.jpg

Good Morning,Well as promised I enclose photos of my basket set up after modifying a spare National Watch Cleaning Machine basket shaft.I turned the head down from 66 mm to 64 mm to accept the Elma basket frame.I have to trim the spring down to size to hold the baskets firm but otherwise it's turned out fine and after cleaning the internal dia of the shaft from all the corroded alloy it fits my machine like it was made for it.Regards and keep safe during this tough time Seth.

IMG_20210107_070901142.jpg

IMG_20210107_070911791.jpg

IMG_20210107_070953795.jpg

IMG_20210107_071115375.jpg

IMG_20210107_071214891.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

It looks really good, well done you.

Good Morning,Many thanks for your very kind remarks,I hope you are all keeping safe and well during this tough time,Regards,Seth.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a cleaner that i have not stared up yet (needs to fill it up), a National MK VI 240V.

The seller of the old machine reminded me that newer watches must always be cleaned with ultrasonic cleaner.

My question: Is that true, when started watchmakers with ultrasonic cleaners and is the result so much different?

I could expect that smaller rubies needs ultrasonic cleaner.

 

Regards

Carl

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

A load of rubbish. If you have a good cleaner and use a good cleaning fluid and rinse the results will be fine.  It sounds a bit like the old saying a bad workman will always blame his tools.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, CMW said:

I have a cleaner that i have not stared up yet (needs to fill it up), a National MK VI 240V.

The seller of the old machine reminded me that newer watches must always be cleaned with ultrasonic cleaner.

My question: Is that true, when started watchmakers with ultrasonic cleaners and is the result so much different?

I could expect that smaller rubies needs ultrasonic cleaner.

 

Regards

Carl

 

 

Hi there,I fully agree with Old Hippy I have an ultrasonic cleaner with heating and degassing and I use that for watch cases,bracelets etc.I always use my National Watch Cleaning Machine with Elma Luxury Clean Waterless Cleaner and 2 rinses in Elma Luxury Clean Waterless Rinse then through the drying cycle and I have been having good results with this.I did use my Ultrasonic cleaner on a main plate of an old pocket watch as I couldn't get a jewel out to clean it so I reverted to the Ultrasonic cleaner.Hope this helps, Regards and keep safe during this tough time,Seth.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

You can get a bearing/gear puller from AliExpress. They are not expensive. 

Thanks ordered one, from 2021 AliExpress collects tax, i read about it and yes indeed, it happened. Still cheap though.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
23 hours ago, luiazazrambo said:

Found rocking horse poo on eBay:

IMG_20210120_101526.thumb.jpg.1983622ce4995f1dbc5018af14e13cda.jpg

Hi there,I hope you are keeping safe and well during this tough time,so did you manage to remove and replace your ball bearings on your motor shaft?? As you were going to purchase a bearing puller the last time I heard from you.Well done for finding baskets on eBay.There are quite often basket sets for sale in the USA but the price of shipping and customs is prohibitive for me.I purchased a set of 40 collets 6 mm for my Lorch Lathe from USA for £275 and then I had to pay £68.75 customs and import duty on top so I won't be purchasing anything else from USA.Regards,Seth.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am still waiting for the bearing puller, it comes from China, i though I have time anyway because the time when I bought the puller I had no basket. I can pick up my second national watch cleaning machine after the lock down, the seller was happy to hold it for me. I am planning to convert it to 12V, already picked up a used printer for its motor, and I am planning to use an arduino to be able to control the time how long the motor should run, maybe a display for the temperature (might be an overkill though). Problem is that I have too many unfinished projects, i must force myself not to start anything new and finish what I already started.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I bought this for my new watch bench. It is nice but because of the way you work on a watch bench, the lamp is mounted on the same plane as your work space (this is higher than if it were a typical work bench).  As a result, the lamp cannot pivot upward enough to get optimal positions. So, what I had to do was design and print an short extender that pushes the fulcrum of the lamp away from the manufactured pivot point.  This allows me more range of motion. I am pretty happy with how it turned out.
    • This purchase must qualify:
    • Please keep us posted though. It's a beautiful clock and well worth a bit of time and effort to get it back to it's original glory. Good luck!
    • Did a bit more today on my Hettich. I also mucked around with practising on the top plate from the second Hettich that I bought. The calico wheel can leave marks and I am being gentle. I am certainly not pushing the plate into the wheel. I could easily stall the bench grinder that I am polishing on. I am wondering if Hettich started to use a lower grade of brass? I still cannot polish the brass to a mirror finish. On my Hettich (older) I have had to emery one of the posts that supports the movement and after 600 grit then 1500 grit, straight to Tripoli on my stitched wheel, then green on the calico wheel and the post is spotless. Absolutely gleams. post has a steel nut on the top of it that was rusty and affected by the battery acid. It is now polished as best as can be done and then I mucked around with a bit of heat and have changed the colour of the nut which looks quite good now. It was black originally. I have done several jobs now by hand where a having a lathe would have been so much quicker. Have to get rid of the Esprit first. Then I might have a chance.
×
×
  • Create New...