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National Electric Watch Cleaning Machine


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8 hours ago, luiazazrambo said:

Is that gap not enough to put your screwdriver in and twist it before you cut anything? I used some penetrating oil i had at hand, but i doubt it helped. You still can try to use something, just give some time for it to have a chance to penetrate/work. I assume your basket shaft is one piece and you cannot take the bottom off. Just like mine?

Could you please send me a picture about the place where the motor cable is attached to the motor case? Is yours is as clumsy as mine?

Like this:

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I am going to try to sort it out like this, but i dont know it yet if it will work or not:

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Good Morning,Well I can now finally see the basket shaft as I have removed about 1/2" from the bottom of the spring loaded cover tube with a fine Jewellers Saw.I have soaked the basket shaft where the motor shaft join is with Plus Gas release fluid so I will try to move the shaft later today.I enclose photos of the motor and shaft assembly,the cable entry to the motor and the new quick release connector that I used to connect the motor also a photo of the connector kit that I purchased from Amazon.How far down inside the basket shaft does the motor shaft go down?? Is it all the way to the bottom or how long is the motor shaft?? Will keep you posted on the problem.Regards and keep safe,Seth.

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4 hours ago, Seth said:

Good Morning,Well I can now finally see the basket shaft as I have removed about 1/2" from the bottom of the spring loaded cover tube with a fine Jewellers Saw.I have soaked the basket shaft where the motor shaft join is with Plus Gas release fluid so I will try to move the shaft later today.I enclose photos of the motor and shaft assembly,the cable entry to the motor and the new quick release connector that I used to connect the motor also a photo of the connector kit that I purchased from Amazon.How far down inside the basket shaft does the motor shaft go down?? Is it all the way to the bottom or how long is the motor shaft?? Will keep you posted on the problem.Regards and keep safe,Seth.

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Hi there, Good News,I have finally managed to get the shaft off the motor shaft and now it's just a matter of cleaning the internal dia of the basket shaft as it's very corroded.I purchased a load of cleaning machine baskets and odds last year for £19-00 on eBay and now I am going to modify the spare shaft to fit the Elma 3 tier basket frame and baskets that were with all the parts that I purchased so that I can either use the original National Watch Cleaning Machine basket and shaft or,use the modified shaft with the Elma 3 tier basket frame and baskets by just swapping out the basket shafts.Photos enclosed of the motor,shaft and spring jar cover and of all the basket parts that I purchased last year from eBay.Regards and keep safe during this tough time,Seth.

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1 hour ago, Seth said:

Hi there, Good News,I have finally managed to get the shaft off the motor shaft and now it's just a matter of cleaning the internal dia of the basket shaft as it's very corroded.I purchased a load of cleaning machine baskets and odds last year for £19-00 on eBay and now I am going to modify the spare shaft to fit the Elma 3 tier basket frame and baskets that were with all the parts that I purchased so that I can either use the original National Watch Cleaning Machine basket and shaft or,use the modified shaft with the Elma 3 tier basket frame and baskets by just swapping out the basket shafts.Photos enclosed of the motor,shaft and spring jar cover and of all the basket parts that I purchased last year from eBay.Regards and keep safe during this tough time,Seth.

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Well done! ? I have a different motor compared to yours. That is a nice set of baskets, it was said before that they are rare like rocking horse poo. And good price too. The last national basket set i saw too late on eBay was £75. I bought another cleaning machine with basket, but I did not see that it was pick up only - well the time when i checked it was not mentioned. I don't know what happens now as I cannot drive due to the lockdown.

Post pics as you progress please.

Edited by luiazazrambo
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39 minutes ago, luiazazrambo said:

Well done! ? I have a different motor compared to yours. That is a nice set of baskets, it was said before that they are rare like rocking horse poo. And good price too. The last national basket set i saw too late on eBay was £75. I bought another cleaning machine with basket, but I did not see that it was pick up only - well the time when i checked it was not mentioned. I don't know what happens now as I cannot drive due to the lockdown.

Post pics as you progress please.

Hi there,Well I have reassembled the National Watch Cleaning Machine with the original basket shaft and I have cleaned all the corroded rubbish from out of the basket shaft and it now glides on and off the motor shaft great!! The machine runs OK as well so this afternoon I am going to set up the spare shaft in my small lathe and reduce the dia of the head where it connects to the Elma basket frame as it is smaller than the National Watch Cleaning Machine basket assembly.Then I will be able to use eithe shaft with either the National or the Elma basket set up.Will keep you posted on this ongoing project.Regards and keep safe during this tough time,Seth.

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Okay so I have a sintered spherical bronze bearing, and while this instruction does not talk about the same motor it also has the same type of bearing: servicing the bearing

Seth, you might need to consider to re-lubricate yours, and I need to figure out how to access the bottom bearing, as so far I could not take the bottom motor case off...

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2 minutes ago, luiazazrambo said:

Okay so I have a sintered spherical bronze bearing, and while this instruction does not talk about the same motor it also has the same type of bearing: servicing the bearing

Seth, you might need to consider to re-lubricate yours, and I need to figure out how to access the bottom bearing, as so far I could not take the bottom motor case off...

Hi there,I have lubricated both top and bottom motor bearings with HP Stihl Chainsaw Grease which is for the chain bearings on a chainsaw so that should be OK.If you see my photo with all the parts laid out you will see the bottom motor bearing which is uncovered by removing the spring loaded jar cover and there is a fibre washer sandwiched between two phosphor bronze washers this is all held in place by the flange on the spring loaded jar cover.The top bearing has a brass cover over it and the same set up with washers.So I removed the washers,packed the bearings with fresh grease and now it runs like a dream.I have turned the spare shaft down to 64mm dia at the head and Araldited 3 Blue Steel 3 mm pegs in to hold the basket assembly.I will let it harden overnight and send you photo tomorrow.Regards and keep safe during this tough time Seth.

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2 hours ago, Seth said:

Hi there,I have lubricated both top and bottom motor bearings with HP Stihl Chainsaw Grease which is for the chain bearings on a chainsaw so that should be OK.If you see my photo with all the parts laid out you will see the bottom motor bearing which is uncovered by removing the spring loaded jar cover and there is a fibre washer sandwiched between two phosphor bronze washers this is all held in place by the flange on the spring loaded jar cover.The top bearing has a brass cover over it and the same set up with washers.So I removed the washers,packed the bearings with fresh grease and now it runs like a dream.I have turned the spare shaft down to 64mm dia at the head and Araldited 3 Blue Steel 3 mm pegs in to hold the basket assembly.I will let it harden overnight and send you photo tomorrow.Regards and keep safe during this tough time Seth.

Ahh I see, you have ball bearings. Yes, a completely different motor. I wonder which one is older. Probably they are from the same period as they are both MK VRs, maybe they just used whatever motor they could acquire. Your's actually has a plate what says "National Electric Watch Cleaner".

I might try to take the bottom of the motor case off tonight. I am a bit worried that I ruin something, probably I have to use my rubber mallet.  

Edited by luiazazrambo
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6 hours ago, luiazazrambo said:

The bottom is a ball bearing, 608 double Z as far as I can see it, and unfortunately it needs to be replaced. First of all i have no tool to get it off. Maybe i visit my garage after the lock down, or need to be creative before it ends.

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Good Morning,Well as promised I enclose photos of my basket set up after modifying a spare National Watch Cleaning Machine basket shaft.I turned the head down from 66 mm to 64 mm to accept the Elma basket frame.I have to trim the spring down to size to hold the baskets firm but otherwise it's turned out fine and after cleaning the internal dia of the shaft from all the corroded alloy it fits my machine like it was made for it.Regards and keep safe during this tough time Seth.

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47 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

It looks really good, well done you.

Good Morning,Many thanks for your very kind remarks,I hope you are all keeping safe and well during this tough time,Regards,Seth.

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I have a cleaner that i have not stared up yet (needs to fill it up), a National MK VI 240V.

The seller of the old machine reminded me that newer watches must always be cleaned with ultrasonic cleaner.

My question: Is that true, when started watchmakers with ultrasonic cleaners and is the result so much different?

I could expect that smaller rubies needs ultrasonic cleaner.

 

Regards

Carl

 

 

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A load of rubbish. If you have a good cleaner and use a good cleaning fluid and rinse the results will be fine.  It sounds a bit like the old saying a bad workman will always blame his tools.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, CMW said:

I have a cleaner that i have not stared up yet (needs to fill it up), a National MK VI 240V.

The seller of the old machine reminded me that newer watches must always be cleaned with ultrasonic cleaner.

My question: Is that true, when started watchmakers with ultrasonic cleaners and is the result so much different?

I could expect that smaller rubies needs ultrasonic cleaner.

 

Regards

Carl

 

 

Hi there,I fully agree with Old Hippy I have an ultrasonic cleaner with heating and degassing and I use that for watch cases,bracelets etc.I always use my National Watch Cleaning Machine with Elma Luxury Clean Waterless Cleaner and 2 rinses in Elma Luxury Clean Waterless Rinse then through the drying cycle and I have been having good results with this.I did use my Ultrasonic cleaner on a main plate of an old pocket watch as I couldn't get a jewel out to clean it so I reverted to the Ultrasonic cleaner.Hope this helps, Regards and keep safe during this tough time,Seth.

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  • 2 weeks later...
23 hours ago, luiazazrambo said:

Found rocking horse poo on eBay:

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Hi there,I hope you are keeping safe and well during this tough time,so did you manage to remove and replace your ball bearings on your motor shaft?? As you were going to purchase a bearing puller the last time I heard from you.Well done for finding baskets on eBay.There are quite often basket sets for sale in the USA but the price of shipping and customs is prohibitive for me.I purchased a set of 40 collets 6 mm for my Lorch Lathe from USA for £275 and then I had to pay £68.75 customs and import duty on top so I won't be purchasing anything else from USA.Regards,Seth.

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I am still waiting for the bearing puller, it comes from China, i though I have time anyway because the time when I bought the puller I had no basket. I can pick up my second national watch cleaning machine after the lock down, the seller was happy to hold it for me. I am planning to convert it to 12V, already picked up a used printer for its motor, and I am planning to use an arduino to be able to control the time how long the motor should run, maybe a display for the temperature (might be an overkill though). Problem is that I have too many unfinished projects, i must force myself not to start anything new and finish what I already started.

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When I said that I was waiting for the puller I actually got it already I just did not notice it on the ground in front of the entrance door. I have replaced the ball bearing, twice actually because i forgot to add the dust cover first, not like it is needed now as the new ball bearing is double Z (closed both sides). Now you can see my first ever attempt to clean a watch with a watch cleaning machine. I used a movement which is not worth saving in my opinion for the test run, going to check the parts with my microscope but it looks promising. I used elma 1:9 pink milk solution for the first jar and filtered rain water for the 2nd and 3rd. I still need to work on the motor though, if i screw it down it slows down as something is too tight, its like a play with the balance end shake. Too lose at the moment, it starts to shake too much with high speed because it is not screwed down properly. 

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Edited by luiazazrambo
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  • 5 months later...

I just finished cleaning and re-wiring my "new" Elma super elite and cleaned today my first movement,using Elma 1:9, then water, then IPA.

 

I too have some marks left on my parts. I'm wondering if the water can have an impact. Using tap water instead of distilled water could potentially impact the effectiveness of the cleaning solution, or left some residue on the parts.

 

Im gonna get some distilled water and see if that helps.

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