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Best Solution for Ultrasonic Machine


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So being still fairly new to the whole watch repair scene i'm curious what others out there suggest for what's the best solution they use for cleaning items in their Ultrasonic machine?  Yes, I understand that it depends on what you are cleaning etc but in general i'm just curious to what the seasoned guys and gals out here use.  Mainly i'd say for cleaning cases and straps for one use.  the other use would be for cleaning watch movement parts?  I've seen many videos where people use all sort's of mixtures so I would like to hear what you guys think as I trust the judgement of those on this forum the most.  Thanks so much everyone for any anticipated responses. 

Graham.

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I am very new here as well but here is my take on the problem.  I use water and my wife's stuff that came with the small ultrasonic cleaner for the case and bracelet.  I use alcohol (91 % isopropyl is what I was able to get) in a small jar in a water bath in the small ultrasonic for all the watch parts.  

Larry  (Midazolam)

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1 hour ago, Doawah said:

the other use would be for cleaning watch movement parts?  

Graham, young fella ( well younger than me anyway) where have you been this past week ?  You have missed so much excitement and mayhem on this subject of cleaning materials, i think there was an ultrasonic machine mentioned in there somewhere. Moderators please any chance of a ruling on only mentioning watch cleaning substances just once a month at the absolute most. Old Hippy pleeease i know you can make this happen, i can't take anymore and i definitely know you can't 😉 . Ps Graham if you did this on purpose, I'm coming looking for you sonshine. 🤣

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
Thought the question warrantied a warning.
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For cases and straps, your approach is fine, Larry. 

On DIY solution for cases and metal bands is to use a small amount of dishwashing liquid and a few drops of ammonia as a cleaning solution in the ultrasonic.

For watch parts, using a small jar in a water bath in the ultrasonic is great. You may want to get some little baskets to keep the parts separated. 

You should be using a cleaner, and then at least one rinse. VM&P Naphtha ia a good watch parts cleaner and degreaser, and the 91% alcohol is an OK rinse.  Do not leave watch parts in the alcohol for more than 30 secs, and don't heat the alcohol rinse. Alcohol can dissolve the shellac that is used to hold jewels in place on the balance and pallet fork.

Watch cleaning systems usually use one cleaning jar, then two or three rinse jars.  Two rinses should be fine for a start. 

I use watch cleaning solutions, but that may be too much of an investment to start with. I usually get it from Esslinger, but they don't have it right now.

https://zenithsolutions.webs.com/hi-tech-and-hi-solv

Hope this helps.

 

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1 hour ago, Doawah said:

I trust the judgement of those on this forum the most.  

Hmm. Suspiciously sounds like butt kissing to me while asking an argument provoking question. Graham we may need a liitle tete a tete. 🤣

6 minutes ago, dadistic said:

For cases and straps, your approach is fine, Larry. 

On DIY solution for cases and metal bands is to use a small amount of dishwashing liquid and a few drops of ammonia as a cleaning solution in the ultrasonic.

For watch parts, using a small jar in a water bath in the ultrasonic is great. You may want to get some little baskets to keep the parts separated. 

You should be using a cleaner, and then at least one rinse. VM&P Naphtha ia a good watch parts cleaner and degreaser, and the 91% alcohol is an OK rinse.  Do not leave watch parts in the alcohol for more than 30 secs, and don't heat the alcohol rinse. Alcohol can dissolve the shellac that is used to hold jewels in place on the balance and pallet fork.

Watch cleaning systems usually use one cleaning jar, then two or three rinse jars.  Two rinses should be fine for a start. 

I use watch cleaning solutions, but that may be too much of an investment to start with. I usually get it from Esslinger, but they don't have it right now.

https://zenithsolutions.webs.com/hi-tech-and-hi-solv

Hope this helps.

 

I've had my say. I for one am staying well out of it.  Hope this helps 🙏 

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3 hours ago, dadistic said:

I use watch cleaning solutions, but that may be too much of an investment to start with. I usually get it from Esslinger, but they don't have it right now.

https://zenithsolutions.webs.com/hi-tech-and-hi-solv

another popular cleaning solution company would be L&R available from the same sources as Zenith. Also available and I don't see Zenith on Amazon.

https://www.lrultrasonics.com/industries/jewelry-watches

 

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I just use distilled water with some dish soap for cases and bracelets and Elma Red for watch parts with a rinse in 99% IPA, Obviously not putting the balance and palette forks in this solution, they go in Essence of Renata.

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5 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Graham, young fella ( well younger than me anyway) where have you been this past week ?  You have missed so much excitement and mayhem on this subject of cleaning materials, i think there was an ultrasonic machine mentioned in there somewhere. Moderators please any chance of a ruling on only mentioning watch cleaning substances just once a month at the absolute most. Old Hippy pleeease i know you can make this happen, i can't take anymore and i definitely know you can't 😉 . Ps Graham if you did this on purpose, I'm coming looking for you sonshine. 🤣

Actually, no.  I've been away for a few weeks and just watched a video on cleaning and thought i'd post the question.  If I missed something interesting i'd definately want to go and read up on it.  

5 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hmm. Suspiciously sounds like butt kissing to me while asking an argument provoking question. Graham we may need a liitle tete a tete. 🤣

I've had my say. I for one am staying well out of it.  Hope this helps 🙏 

Sorry, i may be missing something here but im not sure where you are coming from.  I've only made 4 or 5 posts on this forum as i've just joined a few months back.  My question was an honest question looking for actual answers.  If I have missed something i'm sorry and please point me in the direction to what you are referring too so I can read up on it.  I'm just looking for the info I asked about.

5 hours ago, dadistic said:

For cases and straps, your approach is fine, Larry. 

On DIY solution for cases and metal bands is to use a small amount of dishwashing liquid and a few drops of ammonia as a cleaning solution in the ultrasonic.

For watch parts, using a small jar in a water bath in the ultrasonic is great. You may want to get some little baskets to keep the parts separated. 

You should be using a cleaner, and then at least one rinse. VM&P Naphtha ia a good watch parts cleaner and degreaser, and the 91% alcohol is an OK rinse.  Do not leave watch parts in the alcohol for more than 30 secs, and don't heat the alcohol rinse. Alcohol can dissolve the shellac that is used to hold jewels in place on the balance and pallet fork.

Watch cleaning systems usually use one cleaning jar, then two or three rinse jars.  Two rinses should be fine for a start. 

I use watch cleaning solutions, but that may be too much of an investment to start with. I usually get it from Esslinger, but they don't have it right now.

https://zenithsolutions.webs.com/hi-tech-and-hi-solv

Hope this helps.

 

Thank you so much.  This does fall in line with what some of the videos i've been watching.  I appreciate you taking the time to respond.  Up to now i've been cleaning by hand with a brush and Lighter fluid to clean, followed by a distilled water rinse and an alchohol second rinse to disburse any water.  I'm waiting for my ultrasonic machine to arrive in the mail so these responses have been very helpful in prepping me for when it arrives.

I actually see what Neverenoughwatches is talking about now.  There was a lot of discussion on cleaning techiniques last weekend.  Interesting reading.  My question was more around specific cleaning/detergent contents that goes into the actual US machine.  Thanks all for your responses.  Was most helpful.

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7 hours ago, Doawah said:

Sorry, i may be missing something here but im not sure where you are coming from.  I've only made 4 or 5 posts on this forum as i've just joined a few months back

Lol sorry Graham I'm just messing with you fella. The two most controversial subjects of watch repair are cleaning solutions and lubricants. I imagine always has been and always will be. If you are feeling brave or mischievous then mention either one of them. I just thought we needed a break after last week. 😅 . I hope you  found what you where looling for in previous posts 👍

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
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6 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Lol sorry Graham I'm just messing with you fella. The two most controversial subjects of watch repair are cleaning solutions and lubricants. I imagine always has been and always will be. If you are feeling brave or mischievous then mention either one of them. I just thought we needed a break after last week. 😅 . I hope you  found what you where looling for in previous posts 👍

So, Rich, mineral oil or synthetic? I know what my 2 stroke weed wacker likes, so I think I’ll use the same on my watch. 

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13 minutes ago, gbyleveldt said:

So, Rich, mineral oil or synthetic? I know what my 2 stroke weed wacker likes, so I think I’ll use the same on my watch. 

Eyup matey. I use 50:1 red lube synthetic petrol mix in my old brick cutter with an additional lead additive to stop any pre ignition . I thought just dipping the whole watch, case, dial hands everything in a jar full of the mix pop some anodes in there and connect up to the mains and bingo . One cleaned, fully lubed and lead lined watch ready to wear. Problem is i wont be able to read the dial with my superman eyes. 🤷‍♂️

13 minutes ago, gbyleveldt said:

So, Rich, mineral oil or synthetic? I know what my 2 stroke weed wacker likes, so I think I’ll use the same on my watch. 

Graham sorry mate, Gert has made me think i may have been a little hard on you. Having a shitty time at the moment my father in law passed away at the week 😪. This is how i deal with things.

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
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1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Lol sorry Graham I'm just messing with you fella. The two most controversial subjects of watch repair are cleaning solutions and lubricants. I imagine always has been and always will be. If you are feeling brave or mischievous then mention either one of them. I just thought we needed a break after last week. 😅 . I hope you  found what you where looling for in previous posts 👍

Actually the most controversial subject is should you buy Chinese made tools from China or Chinese made tools packed into made in Switzerland boxes with the price hiked ten fold.  I also would not be surprised if we found out Moebious etc do not actually make the oils they sell as watch oils but buy them from an existing oil maker in bulk for a lot less than they sell them for to us fools to pay exorbitant amounts for.

Hat coat door bye.😎

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31 minutes ago, Paul80 said:

Actually the most controversial subject is should you buy Chinese made tools from China or Chinese made tools packed into made in Switzerland boxes with the price hiked ten fold.  I also would not be surprised if we found out Moebious etc do not actually make the oils they sell as watch oils but buy them from an existing oil maker in bulk for a lot less than they sell them for to us fools to pay exorbitant amounts for.

Hat coat door bye.😎

? Not sure why the hat coat door bye comment, i hope nothing to do with me. I'm not properly scarey unless someone has completly wound me up, only then can i be like the beginner's first attempt at removing a mainspring ie. A massive uncontrollable release of energy lol. You've raised a really good point here Paul, something very close to my black heart. Unfair markups by middlemen. Coincidentally only last week did i have my pennies worth on that very subject. 😠

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4 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

mineral oil or synthetic

you forgot natural and yes were still using natural.  then of course there's been some reference material that indicates that the natural oils were the very best who cares that they were really short shelf life.

 

2 hours ago, Paul80 said:

Actually the most controversial subject is should you buy Chinese made tools

where it should be or not lubrication is probably the number one controversial subject of all time in watch repair. One of the reasons for this is proof how do you know you're doing it right. This means that people have opinions and when you have people with opinions then you can have disagreements.

up until we have these modern newfangled timing machines that measure amplitude using wrong lubricants how would you know. Then we watch is sealed up how would you know if you lubrication is failed until you get around the servicing a watch and if you have a lot of watches you may never get around to servicing it again. As opposed to you put her on timing machine and think all my that looks really bad that some clue perhaps that you lubrication was wrong choices.

And yes there are other groups out there at least in the past are getting a little better about it where basically lubrication discussions were forbidden because of well opinionated people.

2 hours ago, Paul80 said:

Chinese made tools from China or Chinese made tools packed into made in Switzerland boxes with the price hiked ten fold. 

if you really want to see something weird going find a catalog of tools in the 60s and look at the price of things and then compare other things in the 60s and see how much they went up. As far as I can tell the Swiss just raise their prices they never go down ever and they probably I've never actually looked at this but the rise probably faster than anything else on the universe. Oh and the quality of tools seems to be decreasing. then you look at the Swiss tool distributors I think for the most part they do tell you or at least hand that they're just old distributors the most part they don't make their tools. Which means the Swiss will buy their tools where with her cheapest which is China right now. Then a course they put them in those pretty yellow probably made in Switzerland boxes and need to recoup the cost of printing with all that yellow ink I'm sure that yellow ink is really expensive and that's why the tools were expensive.

2 hours ago, Paul80 said:

I also would not be surprised if we found out Moebious etc do not actually make the oils they sell as watch oils but buy them from an existing oil maker in bulk for a lot less than they sell them for to us fools to pay exorbitant amounts for

my two cents on this you are wrong about who makes the oil. I suspect they do make the oil in little tiny batches versus trillions of gallons needed for the automobile industry which is one of the reasons is so damned expensive.   then they take the tiny batches of oil and package them on really tiny little bottles which of course as the cost of everything. Although one of those tiny the bottles will last you a very long time.

Unfortunately lubrication in horology has very special properties which unfortunately also seems to come in a very expensive price. So for instance if they don't make their oil who does detail at how one experiment run out to the local automotive store and buy the cheapest oil he can and lubricate all your watches with them and then see how it performs now and five years you can come back to us with the results. Until is how stupid we are for using expensive Swiss oil unless of course your watch disintegrates then well maybe it isn't that expensive after all.

Oh and then there's the other minor problem with lubrication. Moebius is the preferred choice so that's basically the only one we can buy not entirely there some other brands out there. But often times there totally lacking in anything resembling specifications. Especially if you get away from some of the Swiss oils and go to horological oil on Amazon r eBay for instance it's really cheap but what exactly is it.

oh if you want to save money here's a popular brand and its cheap

https://www.hswalsh.com/product/oil-superfine-wrist-watches-10ml-economy-ho277

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

you forgot natural and yes were still using natural.  then of course there's been some reference material that indicates that the natural oils were the very best who cares that they were really short shelf life.

 

where it should be or not lubrication is probably the number one controversial subject of all time in watch repair. One of the reasons for this is proof how do you know you're doing it right. This means that people have opinions and when you have people with opinions then you can have disagreements.

up until we have these modern newfangled timing machines that measure amplitude using wrong lubricants how would you know. Then we watch is sealed up how would you know if you lubrication is failed until you get around the servicing a watch and if you have a lot of watches you may never get around to servicing it again. As opposed to you put her on timing machine and think all my that looks really bad that some clue perhaps that you lubrication was wrong choices.

And yes there are other groups out there at least in the past are getting a little better about it where basically lubrication discussions were forbidden because of well opinionated people.

if you really want to see something weird going find a catalog of tools in the 60s and look at the price of things and then compare other things in the 60s and see how much they went up. As far as I can tell the Swiss just raise their prices they never go down ever and they probably I've never actually looked at this but the rise probably faster than anything else on the universe. Oh and the quality of tools seems to be decreasing. then you look at the Swiss tool distributors I think for the most part they do tell you or at least hand that they're just old distributors the most part they don't make their tools. Which means the Swiss will buy their tools where with her cheapest which is China right now. Then a course they put them in those pretty yellow probably made in Switzerland boxes and need to recoup the cost of printing with all that yellow ink I'm sure that yellow ink is really expensive and that's why the tools were expensive.

my two cents on this you are wrong about who makes the oil. I suspect they do make the oil in little tiny batches versus trillions of gallons needed for the automobile industry which is one of the reasons is so damned expensive.   then they take the tiny batches of oil and package them on really tiny little bottles which of course as the cost of everything. Although one of those tiny the bottles will last you a very long time.

Unfortunately lubrication in horology has very special properties which unfortunately also seems to come in a very expensive price. So for instance if they don't make their oil who does detail at how one experiment run out to the local automotive store and buy the cheapest oil he can and lubricate all your watches with them and then see how it performs now and five years you can come back to us with the results. Until is how stupid we are for using expensive Swiss oil unless of course your watch disintegrates then well maybe it isn't that expensive after all.

Oh and then there's the other minor problem with lubrication. Moebius is the preferred choice so that's basically the only one we can buy not entirely there some other brands out there. But often times there totally lacking in anything resembling specifications. Especially if you get away from some of the Swiss oils and go to horological oil on Amazon r eBay for instance it's really cheap but what exactly is it.

oh if you want to save money here's a popular brand and its cheap

https://www.hswalsh.com/product/oil-superfine-wrist-watches-10ml-economy-ho277

 

 

 

 

Thanks John 👍 . You've summed it all up very nicely for us matey.  

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There are a many views on ultrasonic cleaners.. Some say they should never be used on watch’s some say they are just fine. There is a guy on YouTube named “Richard Perrett Watchmaker“ who only uses an ultra sonic and he repairs services Rolexes. I did write to him a while ago and he said it’s important to use the correct fluids !!? Personally I now only use my ultra sonic on watch cases and bracelets. The thing I have never liked with the ultra sonics is the drying process. Also I never trusted the ultra with the balance and H/Spring which I always cleaned manually with de- greaser. I know some use alcohol etc but I found just using a dedicated watch cleaning machine was easier gives me really good results and the parts are dry.  

Edited by clockboy
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I would prefer to have a dedicated watch cleaning machine, in my dreams I have a $10,000.00 Greiner 🙂

For now my cleaning setup works well enough for the watches I work on. Even a Pearl or old Elma etc. is out of my reach at the moment,  but I'm working on it! 

Cheers!

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4 hours ago, dadistic said:

I would prefer to have a dedicated watch cleaning machine, in my dreams I have a $10,000.00 Greiner

inflation is stuff you need to set your dreams higher. If this was a professional watch shop they usually have it depends on the shop so they can have a dedicated machine for something called pre-cleaning. In pre-cleaning the watch movement comes out hands and I'll come off the entire movement is run through a short cycle machine so that when the watchmaker is sampling the watchmaking repairs making adjustments the watch is clean. Of course if you're looking for damage like metal filings that is removed and you no longer see that so there are some people that don't agree with pre-cleaning. But if you did that requires another machine may be her $10,000 machine

then what about one of these I think had seen the receipt I think we paid our store paid about 16,004 I bet you it's gone up in price. oh and then in the video they mention the activated carbon filters you definitely want that so you can use the thing inside and the carbon filter takes care of all the fumes. They didn't mention the page or the pager it be nice because I have no idea how for transmit's but that way he can be away from the machine in your pager will go off when it's all done

the video though is amusing in that notice how the fluid is poured into those containers every time I get stuck changing the fluids in the machine I usually end up with cleaning fluid on my shoe's. This is why usually we have missed the help of a newly hired employee base was it's good that we go through a lot of employees because no one remembers how bad it was the last time we change the fluids. Yes machine keeps track of how many times you've cleaned watches you can extend that by pushing the I don't want to deal with the right now button

when you look at the video to separate ultrasonic frequencies are used. End up with a machine that does a phenomenal job of cleaning and for the most part you don't even need to take the jewels apart expressive the pocket watches I never take them apart and they're always clean. On the other hand to can afford I bet you now it's probably $20,000 with oh there's the other little problem maintenance? Every I have no idea how many hours it have to look in the book from time to time at a bunch of little filter things need to be changed we also needed to change the activated carbon at that same time. Then every even longer time it basically has to go somewhere to get like a factory service I'm waiting for that to happen as to how far it has to be cents to get whatever changed but other than well it cost more than the gross national product of some small countries and none of us would ever build a justify its existence it's a really nice machine

 

 

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10 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

inflation is stuff you need to set your dreams higher. If this was a professional watch shop they usually have it depends on the shop so they can have a dedicated machine for something called pre-cleaning. In pre-cleaning the watch movement comes out hands and I'll come off the entire movement is run through a short cycle machine so that when the watchmaker is sampling the watchmaking repairs making adjustments the watch is clean. Of course if you're looking for damage like metal filings that is removed and you no longer see that so there are some people that don't agree with pre-cleaning. But if you did that requires another machine may be her $10,000 machine

then what about one of these I think had seen the receipt I think we paid our store paid about 16,004 I bet you it's gone up in price. oh and then in the video they mention the activated carbon filters you definitely want that so you can use the thing inside and the carbon filter takes care of all the fumes. They didn't mention the page or the pager it be nice because I have no idea how for transmit's but that way he can be away from the machine in your pager will go off when it's all done

the video though is amusing in that notice how the fluid is poured into those containers every time I get stuck changing the fluids in the machine I usually end up with cleaning fluid on my shoe's. This is why usually we have missed the help of a newly hired employee base was it's good that we go through a lot of employees because no one remembers how bad it was the last time we change the fluids. Yes machine keeps track of how many times you've cleaned watches you can extend that by pushing the I don't want to deal with the right now button

when you look at the video to separate ultrasonic frequencies are used. End up with a machine that does a phenomenal job of cleaning and for the most part you don't even need to take the jewels apart expressive the pocket watches I never take them apart and they're always clean. On the other hand to can afford I bet you now it's probably $20,000 with oh there's the other little problem maintenance? Every I have no idea how many hours it have to look in the book from time to time at a bunch of little filter things need to be changed we also needed to change the activated carbon at that same time. Then every even longer time it basically has to go somewhere to get like a factory service I'm waiting for that to happen as to how far it has to be cents to get whatever changed but other than well it cost more than the gross national product of some small countries and none of us would ever build a justify its existence it's a really nice machine

 

 

Hey. I like all the invisible people doing all the work. 

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10 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

 

Unfortunately lubrication in horology has very special properties which unfortunately also seems to come in a very expensive price. So for instance if they don't make their oil who does detail at how one experiment run out to the local automotive store and buy the cheapest oil he can and lubricate all your watches with them and then see how it performs now and five years you can come back to us with the results. Until is how stupid we are for using expensive Swiss oil unless of course your watch disintegrates then well maybe it isn't that expensive after all.

Who said just use automotive oil, it was not me. Go read what I wrote again please.

There are loads of specialist oils out there that have nothing to do with the automotive world, where did you get that from.

I really doubt that Moebious are the manufacturer of the oil they sell.

 

 

 

 

 

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Moebius used to produce their own lubricants, they with industry association help developed Synt-A-Lube in the 50's and had their own production lab. It wouldn't take much of a production facility to create the kinds of quantities needed for the watch industry, really more like a lab. 

Who knows if under Swatch they still have their own production, lots of  companies are now "brands" that contract out the actual manufacturing. 

I'll just go back to using neatsfoot oil (Moebius's original product). I actually have some that I use for leather goods. 

Cheers!

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14 minutes ago, dadistic said:

Who knows if under Swatch they still have their own production, lots of  companies are now "brands" that contract out the actual manufacturing. 

lists watch and control of most of the Swiss watch industry consolidating everything it would make even more sense that their purchasing of Moebius is because it makes the lubrication found in all of their watches. Afterwards they want to have everything under their control not rely on outside sources. On the other hand when you look at the current list of all the different lubricants they have which is quite a bit either they've expanded their lab size possible under Swatch group or maybe several labs all producing under one name.

I couldn't find it last night but I know I found another company in Switzerland producing similar type lubricants unfortunately I couldn't find a supplier anywhere on the planet.

But seeing as how a little goes a long ways it wouldn't take very much to supply the world's need of oil you wouldn't have to have a really big facility.

if you look at the company history it looks like they've and make a oil cents 1855 or at least selling oil since 1855 but because it is a specialty field they probably are making what they sell

https://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/en/about-us

I suppose we should be happy though a lot of products under Swatch group control are not sold outside of Swatch group. It's probably because even the Swiss art a big enough market for the amount of lubrication sold so they do have to expand and go outside of that market otherwise it would be interesting of what we would use for a watches although I know a German company makes some excellent oils for watches just can't buy one of of them in this country.

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Yeah, that's Dr. Tillwich.  I think he was the one who recreated that sorta famous Elgin synthetic oil. You can get some of the products in the US, Cas-Ker has the LGN grease, and Perrin in Canada carries the oils.  And there's always Etsy 🙂

Cheers!

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8 minutes ago, dadistic said:

sorta famous Elgin synthetic oil.

I feel offended with the word sort of famous. The synthetic oil that actually has better properties than the modern Swiss oil and the vintage bottles are still sought after by people who grasp its properties . Plus unlike the Swiss oils that were supposed to throw away every several years and no I don't do that anymore I had sticker shock the last time I replaced all my oils. So your way of Elgin oil that's how old and people still prize it and it seems to still function.

9 minutes ago, dadistic said:

Perrin in Canada carries the oils.

do they have a website?

Supposedly another one of these rumored stories they can't sell their Elgin oil in this country because it has the word Elgin on the package. Even though as you noted you can buy the grease used to bill a by the oil from the same source but they dropped that quite a while ago. But at its cost you think 20 $30 is expensive I think was a lot more than that so no one was going to buy it at least that's what my memory remembers that it was just really really expensive even if it is supposed be really really outstanding

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    • I have never yet attempted to fix a hairspring. I grabbed a parts watch with an AS 1240 out of a job lot thinking I'd maybe get it running for a relative. But I found this bird's nest of a hairspring with at least two hard crimps (almost like "folds"). It looks much much worse than any hairspring straightening demonstration I've seen so I'm curious whether this is fixable as an advanced case and worth the experience of trying, or if it is too far gone. Is it possible to unbend these hard angles? Considering I have broken mainsprings with less severe crimps, I am assuming this can't be fixed but thought I would ask. Thanks!
    • I guess the manufacturing world has succeeded in messing with our minds. in our dental industry, things like liquid mercury and gold alloy have expiration dates. C'mon .... Really? Mercury is an element and gold is stable. So how do they expire? Previously a batch number or lot number was sufficient. Manufacturers became greedy and started putting expiration dates on everything. Making consumers feel guilty or unsafe using expired products, resulting in perfectly good stuff getting thrown away. I think some common sense is needed. Although they say honey found in an Egyptian pyramid is still good, I wouldn't want to try 3000 year old honey. But I would certainly use expired lubricants. (Ahem... not the personal type, of course. 😉)
    • Jim, Where in Florida?  I hope not in IAN's path.  I am in Homosassa and have received my Pearl Supreme and was wondering what mods you did to improve the wiring? Thanks
    • You realize that if he does that it will likely come with another cleaning machine, lathe and a fully stocked cabinet of crystals... 🙂 
    • I don't know... ...however I would venture to guess that lubricating with "expired" oil would be effective but might not "last" as long as you might hope. My question is: Are you charging for your services or is your watch repair limited to learning the trade on your own dime? It would seem that if you are charging customers for watch servicing you ought to be able to replace your dated oil whereas if you are only worried about your own watches you ought to be able to determine that the "old" oil you've used is going to want to be cleaned and re-lubed on a more aggressive schedule.
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