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Trying to hit up the bay for my first project watch for the near future. Does this seiko look legitimate and general advice for avoiding fakes?


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It was of course only after I bid on it that I started seeing threads about the plethora of fake 7006 movements and watches out there. I can find some photos of unsigned rotors but most photos show the 7006 has a signed rotor. There is a weirdly small amount of information on these movements out there given how common they were. Caliber corner doesn't even have a page on them.

It's a non runner and in remarkably good condition for how low the bidding is for these watches. Just wondering if anybody here has been in the game longer than me and notices anything strange. It's from an american seller so I'm avoiding all the fakes from pakistan and india.

I adore how this watch looks and if it's legit i will fight for it!

7006dial.thumb.jpg.f3f657d59bdbcf8762f3559ee1249c22.jpg7006movement1.thumb.jpg.7bee364224b9399c4a14b2267287701e.jpg7006movement2.thumb.jpg.8a7691e790a81ad43daa264f0dc9a4e4.jpg7006caseback.thumb.jpg.325d88539de845d9e32531c10f53d4a8.jpg

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Looks decent to me. Seeing as you jumping into 7S26 already this will be very familiar to you as the 700x was the precursor to it. I have a pile of those movements here and main issues I've seen is wear on the arbour bearing on the top plate. No way to know unless you strip it, but those movements are easy to still find for cheap if you need parts.

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Awesome i appreciate it. This one is astonishing condition and i see people trying to sell these running in worse condition for hundreds of dollars and I love the retro look. I was just concerned about the unsigned rotor. I have not ever seen that from any seiko movement. How many of yours are unsigned if any? Also if you're interested in selling me a signed for a fair price i'd be happy to buy one.

Also to be sure because I"m getting the tech sheets this is a 7006a movement right? looks like there's a few in that family.
 

Edited by Birbdad
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6 hours ago, Birbdad said:

It was of course only after I bid on it that I started seeing threads about the plethora of fake 7006 movements and watches out there. 

I wasn't aware that there are fake 7006s. Something I'll watch for. They are such a cheap basic movement I'm surprised they bothered !

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52 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I wasn't aware that there are fake 7006s. Something I'll watch for. They are such a cheap basic movement I'm surprised they bothered !

Sadly most of the threads on them are pretty old and the ebay listings they were discussing are long gone.

honestly they may have been full of it but it's insane some of the cheap watches i see being faked in vietnam, india and china. I remember threads on watchuseek about fake 7s26 seiko 5's. Pretty convincing fakes of like 110 dollar watches coming out of china.  Absurd. 

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It's not the movements that were faked as such, but rather poorly rebuilt from random parts that were made to fit. Also it's the cosmetics on the watches that had liberal sprinklings of AM or otherwise poor quality fake parts fitted. I use AM parts on many of the stuff I play with if I don't otherwise have a choice, but then that should be disclosed when the piece is sold on again.

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In the watch collecting community, the concerns about non-original parts are heightened and rather than just calling something out as a "frankenwatch" they may call it a "fake"  even if it contains authentic manufacturer's parts.

However, in the watch repair community I think there is an appreciation of interchangeability and the utility of cobbling things together from donor movements as needed, so fake is more often reserved for 3rd party copies or cloned parts that never originated from the OEM, often with a poor fit and finish, that are being passed off as something they aren't. In those cases they aren't concerned with using manufacturer's names under false pretenses, so if the rotor you are concerned about was a true fake trying to pass itself off as a Seiko part, they probably would have forged the makers mark!

But if this is for a first project watch, then even if it would be a cloned part,  the proper function and contribution to power reserve may be more important than whether or not is is signed.

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6 hours ago, Geotex said:

In the watch collecting community, the concerns about non-original parts are heightened and rather than just calling something out as a "frankenwatch" they may call it a "fake"  even if it contains authentic manufacturer's parts.

However, in the watch repair community I think there is an appreciation of interchangeability and the utility of cobbling things together from donor movements as needed, so fake is more often reserved for 3rd party copies or cloned parts that never originated from the OEM, often with a poor fit and finish, that are being passed off as something they aren't. In those cases they aren't concerned with using manufacturer's names under false pretenses, so if the rotor you are concerned about was a true fake trying to pass itself off as a Seiko part, they probably would have forged the makers mark!

But if this is for a first project watch, then even if it would be a cloned part,  the proper function and contribution to power reserve may be more important than whether or not is is signed.

Well i'm seeing a TON of fake dials specifically on seikos as well as fake hands on ebay. Look up old grand seiko hi beats on there as well as old oris's and seiko 5's and there's tons of them with everything from fake dials to fake cases to everything. I stumbled across fake oris watches then shortly after fake other swiss brands using the same case and hands all coming out of india and vietnam. 

I'm less concerned about donor parts from other watches, there's a decent chance this one just needs a service but there might be something mechanically wrong with it and i'll probably buy a scrap movement for donor parts.

That said i DID win it but ugh, after taxa nd shipping it was 91 dollars for a non working watch. Ouch haha. Still tho I haven't seen one in this good condition since I started looking at 70's seikos. it really is remarkably well preserved. I love how this thing looks.

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I don't consider after market parts as "fake". Many sellers don't try to pass them off as originals either. They say things like refurbished, remanufactured, reconditioned....

If you have a set of hands that are scratched up and you repaint or replate them, are they fake?

If you lose the crown and replace it with a OEM crown, is that fake?

If you lose a few teeth and replace them with dentures, are you "fake"? (Sorry. Couldn't resist that. I'm a dentist.)

As long as the part is not signed, can it be considered as "fake"?

 

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4 hours ago, Birbdad said:

. I stumbled across fake oris watches then shortly after fake other swiss brands using the same case and hands all coming out of india and vietnam. 

I think you are looking at the renowned Mumbai specials Col. Frankenwatches. Fake Oris dials are used quite extensively, they are nearly always powered by st96 movements.  Stay well clear mate they nearly always have issues. 

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On 8/11/2022 at 10:39 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

I think you are looking at the renowned Mumbai specials Col. Frankenwatches. Fake Oris dials are used quite extensively, they are nearly always powered by st96 movements.  Stay well clear mate they nearly always have issues. 

Yeah. I just wonder if they could be a good cheap source of used parts. I assume not all parts will be good in them but I imagine a good number would be.

Also I got the seiko in today (And the post office lost my 300 dollar package from cousins with all my lubricants in it...great...) 

But the watch is gorgeous and in interesting condition. 2 tiny loom pips fell off and are inside the watch somewhere i think which might be what's jamming it up but they're just round blobs so i got a feeling those 2 pips will be real easy to re-lume. The date and day advance with the hands but the day does not advance with the crown which is strange, hands turn freely with the crown but the whole thing ins't getting power. not sure what to make of that without opening it up.

Also somehow the case has zero deep scratches in it but has so many light hairline scratches it almost looks matte. I'm wondering if anybody knows whether seikos from this time period had brass cases plated with chrome or whether they were all staineless steel because if it's the latter this will buff to a shine really easily. The crystal will need almost no work with polywatch to get looking brand new.
2065203659_IMG_20220816_0013472.thumb.jpg.e8f34f49e62147ce55a9b0f83ea17ac0.jpg

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19 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

Yeah. I just wonder if they could be a good cheap source of used parts. I assume not all parts will be good in them but I imagine a good number would be

That would be a good idea Col they do often  use the same movement. St96. Fhf standard time 96. Reasonable and solid 17 jewelled workhorse from the 60s. Not sure why nearly always this movement,  probably a heavily used one in the HMT brand. So lots of them kicking around in India. So if needing parts for that movement maybe worth keeping in mind.

46 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

Also I got the seiko in today (And the post office lost my 300 dollar package from cousins with all my lubricants in it...great...) 

Oh dear sorry about your package, im sure it will turn up. You have tracking so see if you can locate it, postal service doing wierd things with packaged dending them backwards and forwards they eventually do turn though.

51 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

 


Also somehow the case has zero deep scratches in it but has so many light hairline scratches it almost looks matte. I'm wondering if anybody knows whether seikos from this time period had brass cases plated with chrome or whether they were all s

 

It does look like ss to me. Chrome has a much more polished shinier surface and often will have plating missing on the back and around the lugs even when the rest of the case is in good nick. Most seikos of this style dress and divers are ss. The case may have already been brushed up which is why no deep scratches but lots of fine surface ones. Scotch pads can be used to achieve that brushed finish. Nice electric blue dial and unusual hands. The date advance issue shouldn't cause you too much trouble. On swiss and i will have to assume it is the same on seiko, the midnight advance has a seperate 24 hour roatation wheel with a raised pin that catches the notched edges of the day and date disks. Possible that a notch has broken on the disk so cant advance any further, i would expect that before any problems with the advancement wheel.

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43 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

That would be a good idea Col they do often  use the same movement. St96. Fhf standard time 96. Reasonable and solid 17 jewelled workhorse from the 60s. Not sure why nearly always this movement,  probably a heavily used one in the HMT brand. So lots of them kicking around in India. So if needing parts for that movement maybe worth keeping in mind.

Oh dear sorry about your package, im sure it will turn up. You have tracking so see if you can locate it, postal service doing wierd things with packaged dending them backwards and forwards they eventually do turn though.

It does look like ss to me. Chrome has a much more polished shinier surface and often will have plating missing on the back and around the lugs even when the rest of the case is in good nick. Most seikos of this style dress and divers are ss. The case may have already been brushed up which is why no deep scratches but lots of fine surface ones. Scotch pads can be used to achieve that brushed finish. Nice electric blue dial and unusual hands. The date advance issue shouldn't cause you too much trouble. On swiss and i will have to assume it is the same on seiko, the midnight advance has a seperate 24 hour roatation wheel with a raised pin that catches the notched edges of the day and date disks. Possible that a notch has broken on the disk so cant advance any further, i would expect that before any problems with the advancement wheel.

Oh for the parts i meant mumbai specials of seiko 5's. TONS of reprinted dial 7s26a movement sieko 5's often for like 20 dollars. There's probably gotta be salvageable parts in them.

As for the package you got more faith then me. If this package gets lost that will now be 500 dollars worth of packages that have somehow vanished within the 5 feet from his truck to my locked private mailbox. He scans them, photographs them which is geolocation tagged and marks it delivered but doesn't put them in my box. I think that area in front of my mailbox might be the bermuda f'ing triangle 😐

As for the finish i have no clue what the original finish even was. Looking at other examples they seem to range from lightly brushed but almost totally matte to shiny but weirdly textured, like only very lightly polished from a raw state.
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Why not finish it the way you like? I like playing with different finishes on cheap watches to up my polishing/brushing skills and get an idea for what works and what doesn't. I've even done glass bead blasting and Cerakote on some pieces to make them unique. If it was one of the popular Seiko divers, speedtimers or a Pogue that might be a different story, but practice on something cheap so you have some skills in your arsenal for when you do get a popular piece

I buy 7S26 movements in quantity from SpeedTimerKollektion. I forget now what they go for but it was pretty cheap. Awesome source of parts and many can be rebuilt to proper working condition as well. Great for practice too.

Edited by gbyleveldt
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11 hours ago, Birbdad said:

for the package you got more faith then me. If this package gets lost that will now be 500 dollars worth of packages that have somehow vanished within the 5 feet from his truck to my locked private mailbox. He scans them, photographs them which is geolocation tagged and marks it delivered but doesn't put them in my box. I think that area in front of my mailbox might be the bermuda f'ing triangle 😐

Aw mate thats really shite. I would be collaring the delivery man or going to your postal branch office. You know me i have a big mouth, someone would be receiving my wrath lol.  Surely there is something you can do Col . 500 notes is a lot of money to be down by anyone's standards. We have had similar things like this happen in the Uk, delivery drivers stealing goods but recording a delivery. I hope you sort it out mate, besides you need to be getting busy servicing and repairing 🙂

9 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

Why not finish it the way you like? I like playing with different finishes on cheap watches to up my polishing/brushing skills and get an idea for what works and what doesn't. I've even done glass bead blasting and Cerakote on some pieces to make them unique. If it was one of the popular Seiko divers, speedtimers or a Pogue that might be a different story, but practice on something cheap so you have some skills in your arsenal for when you do get a popular piece

I buy 7S26 movements in quantity from SpeedTimerKollektion. I forget now what they go for but it was pretty cheap. Awesome source of parts and many can be rebuilt to proper working condition as well. Great for practice too.

Agree with Gert here Col he has a good eye for what looks right. Unless like he says that the watch is something that should keep its authenticity and be restored to original, then finish it to a style that you like. This is what watch collecting should be about, not to have each and every type and style of watch there is but to buy what you like yourself. And if that means some customising that suits your character then so be it even if it entails some wacky and wonderful ideas. We are all individual and we should enjoy and embrace our own quirkiness. 🙂

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