Micro soldering

[Neverenoughwatches]

Hi .Hope you are all well and happy. Just asking for a little bit of advice here if i may. Just made my first attempt at a tiny soldering fix. Ive done a fair bit of plumbing, but this mostly involves copper and brass joining at very rarely less than 15mm and occasionally 10mm microbore. Never done any welding although its on my list to learn along with everything else. This is a fix on a clutch lever that the push pin had broken off. Sanded back and alcohol cleaned the area to solder. Pushed the parts together, fluxed the bottom of the pin and lever hole then used a micro blow torch and .5mm cored solder to join. The solder seems to have taken pretty well but I'm left with a fair bit to dress back.  The picture showing is actually only around 1 -1.5mm of solder accumulation, but still compared to the components more than i would have liked. Is this about an average of what is capable at this scale or can i improve on this in terms of finish with a thinner solder and an electric solder gun. Thank you in advance.

7 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hi .Hope you are all well and happy. Just asking for a little bit of advice here if i may. Just made my first attempt at a tiny soldering fix. Ive done a fair bit of plumbing, but this mostly involves copper and brass joining at very rarely less than 15mm and occasionally 10mm microbore. Never done any welding although its on my list to learn along with everything else. This is a fix on a clutch lever that the push pin had broken off. Sanded back and alcohol cleaned the area to solder. Pushed the parts together, fluxed the bottom of the pin and lever hole then used a micro blow torch and .5mm cored solder to join. The solder seems to have taken pretty well but I'm left with a fair bit to dress back.  The picture showing is actually only around 1 -1.5mm of solder accumulation, but still compared to the components more than i would have liked. Is this about an average of what is capable at this scale or can i improve on this in terms of finish with a thinner solder and an electric solder gun. Thank you in advance.

In part i can answer my own question, so this may help anyone else trying this. I should have realised and used my own ideas when plumbing. Rather than heat the two components, heat only one part to draw the flux and solder into the joint. When soldering a copper elbow or t, always heat at the bend to draw the solder inwards. First mistake realised,  i should have heated the pin from underneath and soldered the top of the joint. I think i was overkeen to make my attempt. 1 lesson learnt. I'd love to hear thoughts on solder sizes and an electric solder gun as an alternative. 

[tomh207]

Hi NEW, hopefully I can help a bit. Cored solder is for use with soldering irons, not micro torches. The melting point of rosin cored solder is very low, I fought it would be great to use for steel/steel joints. For this application I would be more inclined to look at using jewlery soldering with the microtorch with separate solder and flux for a stronger mechanical joint. Have a look for jewlery soldering on YouTube, that would be much more in line with what you are trying to achieve.

 

@AndyHullmay be able to expand and correct me if I am saying wrong.

 

hope this helps

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, tomh207 said:

Hi NEW, hopefully I can help a bit. Cored solder is for use with soldering irons, not micro torches. The melting point of rosin cored solder is very low, I fought it would be great to use for steel/steel joints. For this application I would be more inclined to look at using jewlery soldering with the microtorch with separate solder and flux for a stronger mechanical joint. Have a look for jewlery soldering on YouTube, that would be much more in line with what you are trying to achieve.

 

@AndyHullmay be able to expand and correct me if I am saying wrong.

 

hope this helps

 

Tom

That does help Tom thank you. I did have similar thoughts regarding the strength of the fluxed solder. It did melt very fast, tbh that is all i had at a small size of wire. It seems to have worked ok and dressed up quickly with it being softer. I will see how the bond is, hopefully ok as the solder  has pulled completely through the pin to the other side. The low melting point was a bit of an issue, difficult to control the amount being fed. Heating the underside would have slowed this down. Thanks Tom

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

That does help Tom thank you. I did have similar thoughts regarding the strength of the fluxed solder. It did melt very fast, tbh that is all i had at a small size of wire. It seems to have worked ok and dressed up quickly with it being softer. I will see how the bond is, hopefully ok as the solder  has pulled completely through the pin to the other side. The low melting point was a bit of an issue, difficult to control the amount being fed. Heating the underside would have slowed this down. Thanks Tom

So here we have the part dressed back and cleaned up. The solder has stood up to the rigors of being gripped by the pin and rubbed around for a good half an hour on increasing grit wet and dry. In the picture you can clearly see the solder surrounding the broken portion of the pin in the centre. The fitting will give the final opinion of success. Next time i think i will go with a non cored higher silver content solder. Experiment is the name of my game.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

That does help Tom thank you. I did have similar thoughts regarding the strength of the fluxed solder. It did melt very fast, tbh that is all i had at a small size of wire. It seems to have worked ok and dressed up quickly with it being softer. I will see how the bond is, hopefully ok as the solder  has pulled completely through the pin to the other side. The low melting point was a bit of an issue, difficult to control the amount being fed. Heating the underside would have slowed this down. Thanks Tom

So here we have the part dressed back and cleaned up. The solder has stood up to the rigors of being gripped by the pin and rubbed around for a good half an hour on increasing grit wet and dry. In the picture you can clearly see the solder surrounding the broken portion of the pin in the centre. The fitting will give the final opinion of success. Next time i think i will go with a non cored higher silver content solder. Experiment is the name of my game.

Its all good. Back in and working perfectly. First solder job a success. Just need to improve on a neater initial joint. Here are the pictures after the initial solder ( thought i had added them )

Edited July 22, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[watchweasol]

Hi NEW Might have been better using solder paste which has flux/solder  together and melts very well.  I also use solder chips.    and flux with the dial foot machine   The dial foot machine uses a "cold" soldering technique or micro arc welding by creating an arc at the point where the two parts meet.

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrIQ2eY5dpifAsAxiB3Bwx.;_ylu=Y29sbwMEcG9zAzQEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1658541593/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.dirkfassbender.de%2fdial-feet-soldering-machine.html/RK=2/RS=joEmERBx2rwJpIQk1hbkYxQ8V6U-

This site has all the details.  I actually built my own machine and it works just great.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, watchweasol said:

Hi NEW Might have been better using solder paste which has flux/solder  together and melts very well.  I also use solder chips.    and flux with the dial foot machine   The dial foot machine uses a "cold" soldering technique or micro arc welding by creating an arc at the point where the two parts meet.

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrIQ2eY5dpifAsAxiB3Bwx.;_ylu=Y29sbwMEcG9zAzQEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1658541593/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.dirkfassbender.de%2fdial-feet-soldering-machine.html/RK=2/RS=joEmERBx2rwJpIQk1hbkYxQ8V6U-

This site has all the details.  I actually built my own machine and it works just great.

Thanks WW. I will have a look at that device. I do actually keep a tube the solder paste in my fridge which i was going to try on dial feet. I wasnt quite sure on its strength with it having a low melt point.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[Sirius]

Hello NEW,

first you have to decide, if you want to soft-solder or hard-solder the Parts (yes, next Time, too late for this Lever...)

if soft-solder, then i would go with for Example Castolin 157 either as Paste or as thin Wire. Always use the correct Flux for the Solder of Choice, very important....

if hard-solder, then something like Castolin 1802 or Fontargen either as Paste or thin Wire. Again use the right Flux for the Solder.

if you have no Paste, but need only a tiny Bit of Solder, then hammer a Piece of Solder-Wire flat and cut  with a Side-Cutter small Pieces and put them on the Joint. Never heat the Solder, always heat the bigger Part.

Soldering is like Watch-Repair, Patience and Experience....

 

regards,

Ernst

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 hours ago, Sirius said:

Hello NEW,

first you have to decide, if you want to soft-solder or hard-solder the Parts (yes, next Time, too late for this Lever...)

if soft-solder, then i would go with for Example Castolin 157 either as Paste or as thin Wire. Always use the correct Flux for the Solder of Choice, very important....

if hard-solder, then something like Castolin 1802 or Fontargen either as Paste or thin Wire. Again use the right Flux for the Solder.

if you have no Paste, but need only a tiny Bit of Solder, then hammer a Piece of Solder-Wire flat and cut  with a Side-Cutter small Pieces and put them on the Joint. Never heat the Solder, always heat the bigger Part.

Soldering is like Watch-Repair, Patience and Experience....

 

regards,

Ernst

Thanks Ernst. I should have heated the part from underneath and i should have known as well.  It was like soldering a 3/4 copper plumbing joint with a 1 inch stick of solder lol.  And yes i agree hard solder would have made a stronger joint, i did have some lead free in my plumbing box at work.