Having trouble with the escape wheel

[12052]

Hello!  I'm new here.  My name is Lee and I just started taking apart and putting together watch movements and junk watches a couple of weeks ago.  I've watched about a million hours of servicing videos online so I got fairly familiar with the movements and what does what.  I've been taking apart different cheap movements that I've been getting from Amazon and almost every time I have the same problem.  The escape wheel.  I'll take everything apart and then put it all back together and almost always the escape wheel is just floating around and not doing what it's supposed to do.  I've read other forum discussions and they all talk about the top or bottom breaking.  That's not happening.  Nothing is breaking.  It's almost like by taking it apart I created extra room so now the top of the wheel is not fitting into the bridge. Anyone have any advice or tricks. 

[grsnovi]

Welcome,

Usually we'll ask for photographs. There could be something you're doing wrong if EVERY watch you take apart isn't going back together. We'll likely want to see close-up photos of the ends of the pivot shaft of the escape wheel as well as the jewels (top and bottom). Are these "cheap" movements from working watches? or are you buying cheap, un-cased Chinese movements (like a Seagull ST36)?

[watchweasol]

3 hours ago, grsnovi said:

Usually we'll ask for photographs.

Gary is right on there , without pictures as a guide we are guessing. But from what you say it does sound like the top or bottom pivots are broken or both. First check is was the watch/s you have been working on in a working condition before you worked on it, did you check all the pivots etc when dismantling the watch. As you can see there are many variables so good clear pictures of the movement front and back abd a side on view of the errant escape wheel/s will aid members in helping you.    cheers

[jdm]

On 7/19/2022 at 5:49 AM, 12052 said:

Nothing is breaking.

Are you sure? Take a good look at the escape wheel from a side, wearing an eyepiece. The tips of the 'shaft' (which is called staff in watchmaking) must have two tiny extensions, called pivots. These are easy to break by beginners refitting it, producing exactly the symptoms that you reported.

On 7/19/2022 at 5:49 AM, 12052 said:

It's almost like by taking it apart I created extra room so now the top of the wheel is not fitting into the bridge.

The wheel never fits the bridge. It fits permanently to the staff, which pivots fit the upper (on the main bridge) and lower (on the mainplate) hole jewels.

Edited July 21, 2022 by jdm

[12052]

Thank you SO much for replying to my question!  I appreciate it SO much!  I've just started this hobby and I don't have any teachers or anyone to help me here so I'm just learning from watching videos and reading.  I think everyone is right it that I broke the tiny little pivot at the top of the escape wheel.  I've been working on cheap 20 dollar movements that I've been ordering from Amazon.  I also ordered a cheap pocket watch and so far that's the only one I've been able to take all the way apart and put back together and it still work.  I think that its because the pieces are larger and harder to break.  But I'll take ALL the advice that you guys gave an apply that to what I do moving forward.  I'll hop on here in the future with any other questions as I move forward with this.  If anyone has any good advice on what I should do to find a good learning aid please share.  Thank you SOOOO much!!!

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 minutes ago, 12052 said:

Thank you SO much for replying to my question!  I appreciate it SO much!  I've just started this hobby and I don't have any teachers or anyone to help me here so I'm just learning from watching videos and reading.  I think everyone is right it that I broke the tiny little pivot at the top of the escape wheel.  I've been working on cheap 20 dollar movements that I've been ordering from Amazon.  I also ordered a cheap pocket watch and so far that's the only one I've been able to take all the way apart and put back together and it still work.  I think that its because the pieces are larger and harder to break.  But I'll take ALL the advice that you guys gave an apply that to what I do moving forward.  I'll hop on here in the future with any other questions as I move forward with this.  If anyone has any good advice on what I should do to find a good learning aid please share.  Thank you SOOOO much!!!

A very appreciative soul, thank you. That goes a long way towards you getting help. I think you have covered your bases with learning matey. Videos, books and being here. Besides having your own personal watchmaking teacher by your side ( here is the next best thing ) or going to watchmaking school. My beginners advice to you is take your time and do not try to move something that wont move freely. If its tight do not force it, sit back and rethink your approach. There will be an easier way to ease or release the part you are working on. Practise a gentle touch, here you are working on the most fragile components you will ever encounter. If you think you are not capable or not the right person to do this as a hobby then think again. I've been a joiner and builder for nearly 40 years, I've lifted heavy weights, strength trained and bodybuilt for 15 years. Its very, very rare that i break a watch part, ive learnt to manipulate hairsprings. So you definitely can do it, just with practise. So besides this approach, be methodical and engage logic when dealing with an issue. Think your procedure through first, have it in your head before you do it. As you progress with your learning the disassembly and reassembly will become second nature. Until then take plenty of pictures of the movement, stage by stage as you disassemble.  These will help you put back together what you cant remember.  And trust me you wont remember even after a short period of time. Then one last thing as a beginner, do not get frustrated as this will lead you down the path of damaging parts. If you feel it coming on, then take a break. Good watch guys are here to help you so dont be affraid to ask any questions at all.

[jdm]

1 hour ago, 12052 said:

so far that's the only one I've been able to take all the way apart and put back together and it still work. 

That's all what matters. Now you know what kind of manual sensibility is needed when refitting the escape wheel, and that one cannot happyily tighten screws around. An asset gained when one starts taking things in his own hands as opposed to theoretical circles before starting, if ever. Everybody makes mistakes at the beginning and possibly even later on. Just avoid costly or unreplaceble pieces until you become 110% able. 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by jdm

[mbwatch]

On 7/18/2022 at 10:49 PM, 12052 said:

almost always the escape wheel is just floating around and not doing what it's supposed to do.

As I am in the same stage as you, just started this as a hobbyist with great enthusiasm after watching hundreds of videos, I don't mind asking something obvious that tripped me on two of my first movement assemblies: If the pivots are indeed not broken, are you reinstalling it the right way up so its pinion is engaging with the third wheel or is it spinning freely in the wrong plane? A complete amateur's oversimplified observation is that sometimes the correct orientation of a wheels feels wrong, top-heavy, or upside-down. Take a photo at every stage of disassembly.

 

In any case, this community is really helpful. I've been feeding them questions steadily for a couple of weeks and they've assisted me each time.

[GuyMontag]

I was working on a movement and had a similar issue with the balance wheel. It's probably not the issue you are having but I thought I'd throw it out there just in case maybe you have capstones on your escape wheel like a Seiko 66. When I placed the balance, I didn't put the capstone on the dial side first, so that when I put the balance bridge on, the balance wheel pivot was, as you say, just floating around and not engaged in the jewel. Of course, that was because the capstone wasn't in place on the dial side. 

[12052]

Thank you SO much for all the feedback!  I've ordered a couple more of the same movements so now I'm going to apply what I learned from those first ones to these new ones.  Slow and steady and lots of pictures.  I'm absolutely LOVING this "hobby" (I feel like its not really the right word for it because it feels like more then a hobby but until I think of a better word...) and I will definitely be coming back here with all my questions.  Yesterday I took apart a lot of the springs and tiny pieces that go flying off for the first time and I was actually able to get them back in place.  To me that felt HUGE!  Thank you again and I look forward to learning from all of you in the future!!

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, 12052 said:

Thank you SO much for all the feedback!  I've ordered a couple more of the same movements so now I'm going to apply what I learned from those first ones to these new ones.  Slow and steady and lots of pictures.  I'm absolutely LOVING this "hobby" (I feel like its not really the right word for it because it feels like more then a hobby but until I think of a better word...) and I will definitely be coming back here with all my questions.  Yesterday I took apart a lot of the springs and tiny pieces that go flying off for the first time and I was actually able to get them back in place.  To me that felt HUGE!  Thank you again and I look forward to learning from all of you in the future!!

How about an interesting pastime ?

[mbwatch]

2 hours ago, 12052 said:

Yesterday I took apart a lot of the springs and tiny pieces that go flying off for the first time and I was actually able to get them back in place. 

Another suggestion from a complete amateur that has saved me a couple of times already: I was watching one of the streams from Chronoglide Watchmaking and Kalle mentioned that some less experienced watchmakers will slide the movement into a large size ziploc bag, big enough to reach in and work with tweezers & pegwood when removing and reinstalling challenging springs. When they jump away into the clear bag, it is a lot less stressful to me than when they jump across the desk. It helped me to focus on the tweezer technique without the stress & shaking hands that comes with the worry I'm about to lose a part.

I suspect the more experienced people here are rolling their eyes at this technique, but it's helped me and I never would have thought of it, were it not mentioned on a Chronoglide video stream.

[dadistic]

No eye rolling here, I hate flying springs and I still have that happen occasionally.

I actually don't reach inside the bag, I use thin sandwich bags and work right through the plastic. 

Better safe than sorry!

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, mbwatch said:

Another suggestion from a complete amateur that has saved me a couple of times already: I was watching one of the streams from Chronoglide Watchmaking and Kalle mentioned that some less experienced watchmakers will slide the movement into a large size ziploc bag, big enough to reach in and work with tweezers & pegwood when removing and reinstalling challenging springs. When they jump away into the clear bag, it is a lot less stressful to me than when they jump across the desk. It helped me to focus on the tweezer technique without the stress & shaking hands that comes with the worry I'm about to lose a part.

I suspect the more experienced people here are rolling their eyes at this technique, but it's helped me and I never would have thought of it, were it not mentioned on a Chronoglide video stream.

No mb. It is a good tip. I've  never actually tried it. But as Kalle often says do whatever works for you. Try using a pegwood or rodico or even another pair of tweezers to stabilise the spring. If you practise using tweezers with your left hand you do become ambidextrous to a point. This is ideal when removing springs one to hold and one to release. Both Doc Holiday and Wyatt Earp were two handed gunslingers.

7 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

No mb. It is a good tip. I've  never actually tried it. But as Kalle often says do whatever works for you. Try using a pegwood or rodico or even another pair of tweezers to stabilise the spring. If you practise using tweezers with your left hand you do become ambidextrous to a point. This is ideal when removing springs one to hold and one to release. Both Doc Holiday and Wyatt Earp where two handed gunslingers.

Not sure where that term came from as comboys didn't actually throw their guns. Unless they had used all their bullets and then they might have , and then ran

Edited July 21, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[watchweasol]

Hi Its quite handy to have the bag trick as its easier to do than spend half an hour on the floor grovelling around for a part/spring you may never find. The professionals probably dont use it as they have become proficient in handling springs etc, but to an amatuer its priceless saves time and money. Its a case if you find it handy then do it.