An afternoon of learning...

[grsnovi]

I've been procrastinating work on the Pobeda (since it was working, I figured why work on it and fix it so it won't ever work again).

My wife asked me why I haven't been working on "my watches" so I figured I'd better engage.

So, from my job lot of junk I figured I'd work on opening/replacing Incabloc springs and selected a movement (which turned out to be a Felsa 4023) and opened up the spring on the top side of the balance, removed the jewel setting and split the capstone off of the setting. In placing the capstone back in place I was doing fine until I went to drop it back in the movement and proceeded to drop it on the bench where the capstone and setting promptly dis-assembled themselves and the setting disappeared. So, I closed up the top Incabloc and flipped it over and essentially performed the same magic trick on the bottom Incabloc/jewel (that is, I removed it just fine, split the capstone off the setting and then lost the setting). Closed that back up and noticed there was a movement number and logo so I removed the balance, figured out it was a Felsa and then lost the screw putting the balance back on!?

Not a good day for success however there was much handling of small parts and (hopefully) some learning?

Oh, and there was a 9 image focus stack photography exercise (that turned out just fine - maybe I should focus more on photography).

 

[gbyleveldt]

Oh dear Gary! Seems like the Stooopid Sheet Fairy came to visit again. It usually happens when you’re working with one thing but you mess up something else because of target fixation. Happens to me all the time and really kills any fun you thought you were going to have.

Thing is, you can’t learn to avoid the Stooopid Sheet Fairy by watching videos or reading books. She’s a constant companion initially until you’ve learnt from her all you can. And even when you’ve studied all her lessons and got an A+, she still pics some random time to come visit - especially when you least expect it, but busy with that last little thing to finish a project.

Dont get dissuaded by this my man. You’ll learn a workflow that prevent this from happening so often but it’s one thing you can only learnt by yourself. In my case, I work on different levels of Defcon. When working with capstones I’m at Defcon 1, so nothing else gets done while those end stones come out till they go back in. Laser focus taking them out, into the b-dip clean, lube, then back in again. And if they have diashock springs then those get put safely out of the way. That way they are front and centre in my mind till the job is done and I do nothing else till this is complete.

Ah focus stacking - another very interesting technique that I’ve started messing with but got side tracked. Your pic above came out real good, maintaining focus all the way into the depths of the movement. You using Helicon Focus?

[grsnovi]

Thanks Gert!

I feel like I'm good with Incablocs until I have to put the jewel back. More practice required. I can open them, take the jewel out and close them OK. It's dealing with the 2-part setting/capstone that is causing me trouble.

2 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

You using Helicon Focus?

No, I' using Affinity Photo which has a nice focus stack built in, nice enough for me anyway. For years and years I had only used Paintshop Pro but it dumps all exif data during a save and the photography board that I visit daily shows the exif data when you pause over an image. So, I switched to Affinity when it was on sale for $24 USD and it's been updated many (many) times for free since I paid for it.

[gbyleveldt]

Ah, you paid a good price, and to have free updates without a monthly subscription is very rare these days!

[Kalanag]

2 hours ago, grsnovi said:

…It's dealing with the 2-part setting/capstone that is causing me trouble…

Due to just practicing you might not have oiled the capstone before putting it into the setting? That makes a huge difference because the capillar forces hold the cap stone in the setting!

[grsnovi]

1 hour ago, Kalanag said:

Due to just practicing you might not have oiled the capstone

That is very true.

I suppose I should go ahead and oil during my practice. At the rate I'm using my oil I'll have enough to leave in my will...   The oil will certainly hold the capstone on the setting and there's no earthly reason why I shouldn't use it (other than: boy it's sure expensive why should I put any on this junk).

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 minutes ago, grsnovi said:

That is very true.

I suppose I should go ahead and oil during my practice. At the rate I'm using my oil I'll have enough to leave in my will...   The oil will certainly hold the capstone on the setting and there's no earthly reason why I shouldn't use it (other than: boy it's sure expensive why should I put any on this junk).

Even the very small bottles of oil last for ages. I oil everything i work on even movements that are really poor quality that are causing me grief just to get a reasonable amplitude.  Some of them i should just put in the bin, but i prefer to give every movement my best shot. Its the best practice you can get, can be a little disheartening with failing attempts but when i manage to get a poorly made watch running well its then a huge uplift. Ive been stuck on one for a few weeks now, going backwards and forwards with it inbeween other little repairs for people (its amazing once folk get to know what you're up to they start handing you watches to fix ). Which is ok as long as you make no promises,  I've  not had anyone not say dont worry you cant harm it, it doesnt work anyway. So far I've been lucky, and because they've  not been around the block a few times on ebay they generally just need a service. If you still having tweezer ping Gary, you just need more practice. But there are other ways of carrying parts. I used rodico quite a lot for doing this in the beginning until i got to grips with my tweezer handling.  Also try Ross's idea of fencing off your work area. Old tme watchmakers wore an apron that they pinned to the edge of the bench as well. Some light coloured lino cut in around your bench so you're not having to search through carpet and a good sized magnet is very handy for finding metal parts and a torch for jewel finding.

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Even the very small bottles of oil last for ages. I oil everything i work on even movements that are really poor quality that are causing me grief just to get a reasonable amplitude.  Some of them i should just put in the bin, but i prefer to give every movement my best shot. Its the best practice you can get, can be a little disheartening with failing attempts but when i manage to get a poorly made watch running well its then a huge uplift. Ive been stuck on one for a few weeks now, going backwards and forwards with it inbeween other little repairs for people (its amazing once folk get to know what you're up to they start handing you watches to fix ). Which is ok as long as you make no promises,  I've  not had anyone not say dont worry you cant harm it, it doesnt work anyway. So far I've been lucky, and because they've  not been around the block a few times on ebay they generally just need a service. If you still having tweezer ping Gary, you just need more practice. But there are other ways of carrying parts. I used rodico quite a lot for doing this in the beginning until i got to grips with my tweezer handling.  Also try Ross's idea of fencing off your work area. Old tme watchmakers wore an apron that they pinned to the edge of the bench as well. Some light coloured lino cut in around your bench so you're not having to search through carpet and a good sized magnet is very handy for finding metal parts and a torch for jewel finding.

Something like this G for a magnet. I think it cost me about a fiver from epay. I use it to locate timber studs behind drywall boards. Its about 1 1/2" in diameter. But you can get bigger, i do have a 4 inch diameter one for magnet fishing. You can just loop some string through the eyelet and then hover it around the carpet while standing.  Saves on carpet burns , ( erm no I'm not even going to go there, i could but i wont lol ). 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches
Like a donut i forgot to add the pictures lol.

[Kalanag]

I use a piece of magnetic shower door seal. You get it with two meters of length. If you leave it that long you’ll be more effective 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Kalanag

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, Kalanag said:

I use a piece of magnetic shower door seal. You get it with two meters of length. If you leave it that long you’ll be more effective 

Effective in the shower !, are we all sure this is a watch forum ?

[Birbdad]

Eesh that's rough. I"m gonna be doing this at my computer desk and i'm going to take painters tape and some paper and make a little wall on the front of the desk so if anything tries to roll away it'll get stuck on the desk.

[Shane]

On 7/13/2022 at 3:34 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Old tme watchmakers wore an apron that they pinned to the edge of the bench as well.

This is my AHA! movement for the day!  Not sure how/if this will happen in the shower.

Thanks loads.

OP, I feel your frustration. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Shane

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 minutes ago, Shane said:

This is my AHA! movement for the day!

Thanks loads.

Keep collecting tips, they all add up to make life a bit easier. I did suggest a tip section but i think it fell on deaf ears

[Shane]

2 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I did suggest a tip section but i think it fell on deaf ears

I would certainly support a section or thread devoted for this. 

[suomaf]

On 7/21/2022 at 9:13 PM, Shane said:

This is my AHA! movement for the day!  Not sure how/if this will happen in the shower.

Thanks loads.

OP, I feel your frustration. 

I love coming in here. Another tip.

 

On 7/13/2022 at 8:13 AM, grsnovi said:

In placing the capstone back in place I was doing fine until I went to drop it back in the movement and proceeded to drop it on the bench where the capstone and setting promptly dis-assembled themselves and the setting disappeared. So, I closed up the top Incabloc and flipped it over and essentially performed the same magic trick on the bottom Incabloc/jewel (that is, I removed it just fine, split the capstone off the setting and then lost the setting). Closed that back up and noticed there was a movement number and logo so I removed the balance, figured out it was a Felsa and then lost the screw putting the balance back on!?

 

I feel you man, I have been trying to practise too. You know what, since getting the stereo microscope and working almost exclusively under that. I have been able to not contribute to the swiss space program as much. Those little incabloc are still the bane of my existence. But that is why we practice right? I just put in an order for those auto oilers. supposedly you are able to oil it by poking the feeder through the jewel hole.

[Shane]

6 hours ago, suomaf said:

I just put in an order for those auto oilers. supposedly you are able to oil it by poking the feeder through the jewel hole.

I also do not have an automatic oiler yet.  Just remember that they do not automatically remove any of the crud from between the stones and if you do take the stones out to clean, their easier to manipulate after oiling (it holds them together).

Good luck.

Shane

 

[gbyleveldt]

Yeah, auto oilers aren't as easy to use as you would hope. It takes a while to get to grips with it and to set it up properly. As above, you still need to remove the cap jewels to clean them and yes, they're more tricky to keep together if they're not oiled.