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Reverse Breguet hairspring :-)


LittleWatchShop
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Now that I have your attention with the catchy title!

Here is a hairspring that come from a watch that I have little invested in, but I would like to get it working...an old elgin ladies pendant watch.

I show the hairspring as it came out of the watch and then again after I have worked on it for awhile.  I think I am getting close, but now each adjustment seems more sensitive, so I am taking it very very slow.  I have watch some videos on bending hairsprings but watching and doing are two different things.

For tweezers, I am using a Dumont #3 in my left hand and Dumont #6 in my right (I am right handed).  I feel like I would have more control with two #6.  As you can see, I have stabilized the hairspring in pith wood because I felt like it would be better than driving the brass pin into pine or some other relatively soft wood.

Any thoughts?

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2022-07-03 09_57_29-IMG_8800.JPG ‎- Photos.png

Edited by LittleWatchShop
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1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

so I am taking it very very slow.

the slow aspect is really really important.  hairspring work is not something you rush you really want to concentrate on what you're doing

1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I have watch some videos on bending hairsprings but watching and doing are two different things.

yes the videos that's a classic problem with the videos. For one thing in the videos most people of videos want to make a decent video they want to make you happy they want to show a good outcome and how many videos are really realistic on this is really hard and I may not succeed?

another thing helps his books this is the one I find is really good

 Bench Practices for Watch And clockmakers –  Henry B. Fried (Author) 1954 1974

the book is interesting in that it came in different versions in some versions don't have all the section so some versions are missing the hairspring section. They hairspring section is really really good as it covers how to fix things with hairsprings lots of things. Although Henry tends to make everything look really really simple somewhere out there I think on YouTube is a video of him straightening hairsprings. But the book works really really nicely

then Amazon can be quite amusing and somebody didn't tell the people at the last link that their book is very rare in the prices very bad just way too low in place notice Amazon prices are not desirable at all which is what sometimes happens with Amazon I have to wonder how they come up with those prices

https://www.amazon.com/Bench-practices-watch-clockmakers-Henry/dp/B0006CEZ08

https://www.amazon.com/Bench-Practices-Watch-Clockmakers-Henry/dp/096562191X

https://www.clockworks.com/product/bench-practices-for-watch-and-clockmakers-by-henry-b-fried

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

 Bench Practices for Watch And clockmakers –  Henry B. Fried (Author) 1954 1974

I have this book and it does have an extensive amount of hairspring material.  I wonder how different it is from the one you list.

I was looking at the breguet section several weeks ago but did not review it in prep for this exercise.

I wish I had a set of those bending tweezers.  I have been looking for them but so far, no luck.

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3 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

 I have stabilized the hairspring in pith wood because I felt like it would be better than driving the brass pin into pine or some other relatively soft wood.

I cut and place a piece of white paper over the pith wood before you pin the spring on, you can see details better in contrast ( white &  spring). 

Cigarette boxes the kind that contains 20 cigartte is good, better than thin paper. 

This should be easy to fix, at least you know where the bend was and already studded.

Good luck

 

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1 minute ago, Nucejoe said:

pin the spring on, you can see details better in contrast ( white &  spring). 

another way to work on hairsprings is in the image I'm attaching

1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

have this book and it does have an extensive amount of hairspring material.  I wonder how different it is from the one you list.

the problem is there seems we always variations slightly different table changes and of course different prices from extremely amusing to realistic for a paperback I've attached images of the table of contents so you can compare

hairspring glass.jpg

bp--2.JPG

bp--1.JPG

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1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

the problem is there seems we always variations slightly

This is VERY helpful! 

Table of contents is identical except for Book III, III-Part II.  Notice the word "New" which indicates they have modified that section.  As you know, I am the co-author of a textbook, now in the third edition.  You gotta change something to make it "fresh" so that the previous editions are not so interesting.  In my case, though, we let our imagination get away with us...lol.

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

another way to work on hairsprings is in the image I'm attaching

I bought this quite a while back but have yet to see its value.  If I told you how much money I have invested in this "hobby" it would melt your screen.

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1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I bought this quite a while back but have yet to see its value.  If I told you how much money I have invested in this "hobby" it would melt your screen.

when I was in school in Switzerland we used it from working on hairsprings. It may be because you can look through the glass you don't get some shadowing effects you do that when you're looking out on paper. But that was a long time ago so maybe there are better ways today.

yes somebody else was telling them a while back what they had spent on tools this year and the number seemed a little on the high side. While as a students in school we had to purchase some tools new. I rapidly got introduced to nawcc regional meetings. Seattle wasn't big enough to have their own meeting every year so they alternated with Portland. Between them and several national meetings always a good place to buy tools and things because at that time there was no eBay to compete. Now you're stuck with eBay and the ability to get really good deals isn't going to be there sometimes sometimes you might be lucky.

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Thought I would post progress even though it is not done and disaster could strike at any moment.  Also to give @Nucejoea million kudos for the paper idea.  It makes a world of difference!

Hairspring is not planar, so I have to work that out.  I realized that whoever goobered up the hairspring also dissappeared the regulator, so I am essentially stuck with this incomplete situation, however, I think a donor I got on ebay will at least address that...will know when it arrives.

This exercise may never end up in the watch, but I think it is important for me to do in order to incrementally improve my skills for when I have no other choice.

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2022-07-04 10_05_52-IMG_8802.JPG ‎- Photos.png

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Nice work! The general rule is for truing "in the round", correction is done at 90 degrees to the max error; truing "in the flat" correction is made at 180 degrees to max error.

 

In your case there are bends next to bends, so keep those rules in mind but work as each case demands. Work from inside out. Pretty sure you'll save this spring!

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I am gonna stop here until I get the regulator from a donor.  This still needs some tweaking and it really is supposed to be an over coil, so I will make the measurements when I get the donor and then proceed further.

My technique changed as I progressed.  I quite using the Dumont #3 in my left hand and, instead, used another curved tweezer.  Not a #6, but I have some curved tweezers that I dressed to work nicely for this application.

2022-07-04 13_18_12-IMG_8804.JPG ‎- Photos.png

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On 7/3/2022 at 6:14 PM, LittleWatchShop said:

I have this book and it does have an extensive amount of hairspring material.  I wonder how different it is from the one you list.

I was looking at the breguet section several weeks ago but did not review it in prep for this exercise.

I wish I had a set of those bending tweezers.  I have been looking for them but so far, no luck.

This has a good section on hairsprings inc. Vibrating. It was £18.99

16569683302673784023744784888960.jpg

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On 7/3/2022 at 7:53 PM, JohnR725 said:
On 7/3/2022 at 7:46 PM, Nucejoe said:

 

another way to work on hairsprings is in the image I'm attaching

How is this used John ?

3 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Is there an echo in here?

Haha sorry. I know i just saw yours two mins after i posted this 😆

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