Proper way to clean a watch

[HectorLooi]

36 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

None of them was on time (all were totally off without exception).

Now you know why nobody is punctual in Asia, with the exception of Japan and Singapore. 

36 minutes ago, Plato said:

It was his watch too, he's wearing it in this video:

 

C'mon, admit it. You're hooked.

[Plato]

2 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

C'mon, admit it. You're hooked.

There goes my Sunday evening!

[LittleWatchShop]

2 hours ago, Plato said:

It was his watch too, he's wearing it in this video:

 

This guy is fearless!  Gaining great respect for him!!

[VWatchie]

On 7/2/2022 at 2:18 PM, nickelsilver said:

I don't think so. Prior to the explosion of folks (of vastly differing ability, but often generally being perceived as competent to expert) posting videos of watch repair I don't think it occurred to very many people- i.e. next to none- to try repairing watches.

Without Youtube, or should I say the Internet, I would never have gotten into servicing/repairing. So I guess you're right about that. Nevertheless, it wasn't that I just happened to see one of those watch repair videos that got me started. It was a strong inner urge to be able to service a watch (long story) that drove me to actively research the Internet for information about it. Being well over 50 years old, having young kids, and doing fairly well in my profession, going to a watch school just wasn't an option (something I mourn quite a lot).

I remember watching some of the videos on the Watch Repair Channel but having zero knowledge of watch repair, those videos basically just made me feel intimidated and confused. I should say that these days with all the knowledge I have obtained over the years I appreciate the Watch Repair Channel immensely and there's basically only one other repairer that I respect as much as Mark and perhaps even more. That repairer has a member name on this forum being a combination of one transition metal and one precious metal 

Eventually, I found a Youtube channel named "Ratfaced git". It was hosted by a retired car mechanic named Dan. Naturally, his approach was much that of a car mechanic, rather than that of a skilled and experienced watch repairer. Dan hardly knew the names of parts, didn’t care much and was proud of it. It inspired me endlessly and gave me - at that time a complete mechanical idiot - the courage to try it myself on one of those Vostok movements that could be had on eBay for a few dollars. Honestly, without those videos, I’m not sure my interest would have taken off and that I would be writing this post. I have now taken several online courses and I have some of the books by Fried and DeCarle, and I have learned tons on this forum, but without that retired car mechanic, I'm not sure that would have happened.

Have I butchered any watches? Well, butchered is a strong word, but to be honest, some of the watches that I have been working on would likely have been better off in the hands of a pro. For that, I apologise to the watch gods and the pros. 

On 7/2/2022 at 2:18 PM, nickelsilver said:

When I see some of the videos, which are very popular, and the horrifying "technique" and the ooohing and ahhhing in the comment sections, I think the average affordable vintage watch is at much greater risk now.

Yes, they all make it look so easy, don't they? Complete and perfect service and repair of a Rolex 3135 in under 40 minutes, and for that, "the pros have the audacity to charge $500 or more". Having some personal experience of what it takes to just service a watch without doing any repairs, I'm personally amazed that the pros can even survive at those rates, but I guess they're really good at what they're doing.

Nevertheless, I think these Youtube videos are great for promoting watches in general and that means more people will want to have "a real watch" and that is a good thing for the trade on the whole. Sure, some of those affordable vintage watches will be butchered in the process, and however sad that is, there are millions and millions of them out there.

And, although there's a lot of ooohing and ahhhing in the comment sections, I rarely see comments where people express that the video gave them the confidence to service/repair the family heirloom themselves.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 7/3/2022 at 3:07 PM, VWatchie said:

Without Youtube, or should I say the Internet, I would never have gotten into servicing/repairing. So I guess you're right about that. Nevertheless, it wasn't that I just happened to see one of those watch repair videos that got me started. It was a strong inner urge to be able to service a watch (long story) that drove me to actively research the Internet for information about it. Being well over 50 years old, having young kids, and doing fairly well in my profession, going to a watch school just wasn't an option (something I mourn quite a lot).

I remember watching some of the videos on the Watch Repair Channel but having zero knowledge of watch repair, those videos basically just made me feel intimidated and confused. I should say that these days with all the knowledge I have obtained over the years I appreciate the Watch Repair Channel immensely and there's basically only one other repairer that I respect as much as Mark and perhaps even more. That repairer has a member name on this forum being a combination of one transition metal and one precious metal 

Eventually, I found a Youtube channel named "Ratfaced git". It was hosted by a retired car mechanic named Dan. Naturally, his approach was much that of a car mechanic, rather than that of a skilled and experienced watch repairer. Dan hardly knew the names of parts, didn’t care much and was proud of it. It inspired me endlessly and gave me - at that time a complete mechanical idiot - the courage to try it myself on one of those Vostok movements that could be had on eBay for a few dollars. Honestly, without those videos, I’m not sure my interest would have taken off and that I would be writing this post. I have now taken several online courses and I have some of the books by Fried and DeCarle, and I have learned tons on this forum, but without that retired car mechanic, I'm not sure that would have happened.

Have I butchered any watches? Well, butchered is a strong word, but to be honest, some of the watches that I have been working on would likely have been better off in the hands of a pro. For that, I apologise to the watch gods and the pros. 

Yes, they all make it look so easy, don't they? Complete and perfect service and repair of a Rolex 3135 in under 40 minutes, and for that, "the pros have the audacity to charge $500 or more". Having some personal experience of what it takes to just service a watch without doing any repairs, I'm personally amazed that the pros can even survive at those rates, but I guess they're really good at what they're doing.

Nevertheless, I think these Youtube videos are great for promoting watches in general and that means more people will want to have "a real watch" and that is a good thing for the trade on the whole. Sure, some of those affordable vintage watches will be butchered in the process, and however sad that is, there are millions and millions of them out there.

And, although there's a lot of ooohing and ahhhing in the comment sections, I rarely see comments where people express that the video gave them the confidence to service/repair the family heirloom themselves.

 

Nicely put Watchie sir.  Surely  ( stop  calling me Surely ) it cant take long for a watch breaker to realise that hes no good at fixing  watches and cant make money from it. Half a dozen maybe, but thats still half a dozen down the drain i suppose. Maybe something nice as well, like the DD I've just aquired. That was sent to a jeweller to have a new mainspring installed and then he ended up shafting the balance staff pivots.

[LittleWatchShop]

On 7/3/2022 at 9:07 AM, VWatchie said:

one transition metal and one precious metal

Indeed!

 

[gbyleveldt]

I just did the dirty and broke a balance pivot. Movement was just serviced and working well, but because I just can’t leave well alone I took the balance cock off “to check something” and was a little hamfisted when I put it book. A little too complacent me thinks. Grrrrr

[Neverenoughwatches]

24 minutes ago, gbyleveldt said:

I just did the dirty and broke a balance pivot. Movement was just serviced and working well, but because I just can’t leave well alone I took the balance cock off “to check something” and was a little hamfisted when I put it book. A little too complacent me thinks. Grrrrr

Oops . It happens Gert. This was a so called professional that trashed my DD. Tbh if he hadn't i wouldnt have it now.  Are you on a Seiko mate ? 

[gbyleveldt]

Yeah, those really tiny 4205’s. Things are just so much more fragile when they this small.

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

Yeah, those really tiny 4205’s. Things are just so much more fragile when they this small.

Oooooh an opportunity to learn to repivot then, i am all eyes. Go for it Gert.

[gbyleveldt]

26 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Oooooh an opportunity to learn to repivot then, i am all eyes. Go for it Gert.

Haha, you took the words right out of my mouth Rich! I already stripped the balance completely so this is gonna be fun…

[Neverenoughwatches]

46 minutes ago, gbyleveldt said:

Haha, you took the words right out of my mouth Rich! I already stripped the balance completely so this is gonna be fun…

Fantastic Gert. Aw video it mate. Or loads of pictures and a walkthrough. I have to do my DD, I'm looking at a repivoting tool as we speak.

On 7/3/2022 at 10:45 AM, HectorLooi said:

Now you know why nobody is punctual in Asia, with the exception of Japan and Singapore. 

C'mon, admit it. You're hooked.

On a different note Hector. I thought this might tickle you . It came by me in a job lot. 

[VWatchie]

3 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Oooooh an opportunity to learn to repivot then, i am all eyes. Go for it Gert.

Please excuse my ignorance, but can balance staff pivots be repivoted? Wouldn't it be easier/better to replace the balance staff?

[nickelsilver]

14 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Please excuse my ignorance, but can balance staff pivots be repivoted? Wouldn't it be easier/better to replace the balance staff?

Balance staffs can be repivoted. Of course if a replacement staff is available that's the best; and in my experience there's no real time advantage to repivoting over making a new staff if no staff is available. Actually, I often make staffs even if there's theoretically a replacement available, simply because there are often more than one possible replacements, and you might not know which is the good one, and the supplier might send the wrong one, and by the time you've tracked one down and get it installed for me at least it's faster to make one. I'm not great at searching for parts, haha.

[Neverenoughwatches]

24 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Please excuse my ignorance, but can balance staff pivots be repivoted? Wouldn't it be easier/better to replace the balance staff?

Hi Watchie, yes they can be repivoted as far as i know. I have watched it being done quite successfully and also quite unsuccessfully on youtube. And also there are specific traditional tools for that particular job. I will post one up soon along with my many failed attempts with it and eventually a successful one lol. And yes I'm sure it is much better and much much easier to replace the full staff if one is available which i would think it will be in Gert's case. But where is the fun in that ?

2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Fantastic Gert. Aw video it mate. Or loads of pictures and a walkthrough. I have to do my DD, I'm looking at a repivoting tool as we speak.

On a different note Hector. I thought this might tickle you . It came by me in a job lot. 

I thought you might like it. I did think it rather odd. I cant see many being sold tbh. I will open it up and see what is inside it. I cant imagine anything but a miyota quartz if that.

[gbyleveldt]

4 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Please excuse my ignorance, but can balance staff pivots be repivoted? Wouldn't it be easier/better to replace the balance staff?

Haha, re-pivoting is not something I'm likely to do soon. I'll just be replacing the balance staff. Getting that done while ensuring the balance is, well, balanced seems difficult enough already.

[LittleWatchShop]

4 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

I often make staffs

You may have answered this once before, but I will ask again...do you leave the work in the lathe for the entire cut, versus parting off after cutting to the shoulder, flipping, and working the other end?

If you weren't so far away...

[nickelsilver]

8 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

You may have answered this once before, but I will ask again...do you leave the work in the lathe for the entire cut, versus parting off after cutting to the shoulder, flipping, and working the other end?

If you weren't so far away...

I start will soft steel. I then, starting from upper pivot using a slide rest (or cross slide depending on your terminology):

-cut the length for the upper pivot, leaving it 0.02 under the next diameter to cut (this sets the length, the extra material on diameter is good during heat treatment)

-cut the next diameter, to size, collet diameter, to size, balance diameter, to size

-cut the rest of the length to the hub diameter

with another tool, essentially a parting tool:

-cut roller diameter, leaving it 0.02 oversize of its largest diameter

-cut next diameter (if there is one), to size, or-

-cut pivot diameter to 0.02 under the last one cut, then part off to length

 

Harden and temper.

 

Holding on the roller diameter or hub, with hand gravers:

-form conical pivot, leave 0.01 or 0.02 oversize

-cut rivet, make chamfers, polish up with 1200 grit paste on pegwood

 

Flip, holding on balance diameter:

-form pivot

-cut taper for roller

-cut hub taper

-polish up as/if needed

 

Rivet to balance, burnish pivots to size in Jacot, round pivots in lathe.

 

It's extremely rare for one to distort in hardening. If it's a really long staff for a really high end watch it's just a little more time to do the first steps leaving a tiny bit of extra material then finishing between centers after heat treatment, but haven't resorted to that in many years

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by nickelsilver

[LittleWatchShop]

10 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

I start will soft steel.

I have copied this to a file and stored in my REFERENCE folder...never to be forgotten!

Thanks!

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

Haha, re-pivoting is not something I'm likely to do soon. I'll just be replacing the balance staff. Getting that done while ensuring the balance is, well, balanced seems difficult enough already.

Aw i was looking forward to a good first time walkthrough. It looks like I'll have to do it then

[gbyleveldt]

4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Aw i was looking forward to a good first time walkthrough. It looks like I'll have to do it then

No, no please, it’s your turn