Movement Holder for Mark Lovick Lesson 5

[GeoMontreal]

Hello,

I started new lesson 5 about chronograph by Mark Lovick, there’s 3 movement to be used in the lesson, for the valjoux 7750 I found a movement holder quite easily, but for the venus clone and Poljot I don’t know what I should use, on Mark videos he seems to have movement holder fitted for both movement…

 

Thank you,

 

Georges

Edited June 22, 2022 by GeoMontreal

[grsnovi]

I've seen Mark use holders specific to the movement. These can be perfect for chronographs since they can allow access to the pushers. 

Do you have an adjustable holder? Seems that would be where to start.

[ifibrin]

Depending on how much the movements cost you, and how willing you are to have scratch marks on the movement, I would prefer to use a purpose built movement holder rather than an adjustable one.

I find that with adjustable movement holders, the movement can flip when applying pressure to loosen a screw, if the screw in question happens to be somewhere in the middle of the movement. Also, adjustable metal movement holders can sometimes leave marks  or scratches on the softer brass movement, which can be a concern on more expensive movements.

A purpose built movement holder will support the entire movement all around the circumference of the movement, preventing flipping of the movement. Since it doesn’t use pressure to hold the movement in place, it won’t leave marks or scratches on the movement. More importantly for a chronograph, the purpose built movement holder will have support for specific movement jewels, which is quite important when fitting hands, which require substantial pressure when fitting in a chronograph.

That is not to imply that adjustable movement holders have no use, because they are still useful. You just need to know their limitations. Also, purpose built movement holders for some calibers may be difficult to find, but if you have access to a 3D printer, you can actually make one, although you will have to find some way to make “posts” to support the movement jewels.

[GeoMontreal]

Thank you for the answer, what are dedicated movement holder size for Venus  (Seagull ST19) movement , and the one for the poljot 3133 ?

As I have no idea where to find them ….

 

Thank you for your  help,

[ifibrin]

4 hours ago, GeoMontreal said:

Thank you for the answer, what are dedicated movement holder size for Venus  (Seagull ST19) movement , and the one for the poljot 3133 ?

As I have no idea where to find them ….

 

Thank you for your  help,

You can probably get those metal ring sort of movement supports, for a specific ligne size, but it wouldn’t support the jewels that need supporting during watch hand placement. It would be debatable whether these sort of metal ring movement holders would be better than the adjustable ones.

I would suggest you contact @Mark if he could tell you where he got his movement holders, or the schematics if he made those himself. It can be difficult to find the right tools when you work with movements that are not as common as the 7750, or Omega 1861 calibers. 3D printing would be the best option if you could get a 3D printer, and make the measurements of the movement so you know where to put the supports.

 

[GeoMontreal]

Thank you for your answers - I’ll contact Mark about it

[Klassiker]

Here's someone who sells 3-d prints:

 https://www.ebay.de/itm/Movement-holder-multiple-models-dual-side-reversible-3D-printed/174797241855?hash=item28b2ba3dff:g:C3sAAOSwKIhfsvVD&pageci=845250ee-9dfc-4ab6-8083-f4266ddbfa13&redirect=mobile

 

[Tiny]

How about going by size or lignes  p3133 is Lignes 14 I have found this site for Bergeon holders  https://www.ofrei.com/page1299.html 

st19 is Lignes 13.75

[Mark]

15 hours ago, Tiny said:

How about going by size or lignes  p3133 is Lignes 14 I have found this site for Bergeon holders  https://www.ofrei.com/page1299.html 

st19 is Lignes 13.75

Correct.

In the videos you might observe that I am using a 13 3/4 ligne holder for the ST19 (also for the Poljot 3133) - the Venus 175 is 14 ligne.

Here is the product on Cousins. Expensive, but very low risk to the movement.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/by-size-bergeon-5914

 

[ifibrin]

8 hours ago, Mark said:

Correct.

In the videos you might observe that I am using a 13 3/4 ligne holder for the ST19 (also for the Poljot 3133) - the Venus 175 is 14 ligne.

Here is the product on Cousins. Expensive, but very low risk to the movement.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/by-size-bergeon-5914

 

Is there any concern if the chronograph second hand jewel is not supported by a post in the movement holder during hand installation? I notice that most chronograph movement holders use adjustable posts to support certain jewels.

[Mark]

12 hours ago, ifibrin said:

Is there any concern if the chronograph second hand jewel is not supported by a post in the movement holder during hand installation

The above are movement holders for assembly and disassembly of the movement, not support for fitting of hands - although sometimes they can be a combined tool, this is not always the case.

It's more of a concern when fitting new hands which will be tight fitting. Hands previously fitted and removed for service do not generally need to be forced down so hard to the extent that a jewel would be pressed out of position. However, if I felt it does need support and I did not have a dedicated hand support holder for my Bergeon 8935 for a particular movement (not all calibers have a specific one available) then I would use a jeweling tool or staking set to support the jewel whilst pressing down, I prefer to use my staking set as I have a particular punch with a soft flat tip which is ideal for the purpose.

[ifibrin]

8 hours ago, Mark said:

The above are movement holders for assembly and disassembly of the movement, not support for fitting of hands - although sometimes they can be a combined tool, this is not always the case.

It's more of a concern when fitting new hands which will be tight fitting. Hands previously fitted and removed for service do not generally need to be forced down so hard to the extent that a jewel would be pressed out of position. However, if I felt it does need support and I did not have a dedicated hand support holder for my Bergeon 8935 for a particular movement (not all calibers have a specific one available) then I would use a jeweling tool or staking set to support the jewel whilst pressing down, I prefer to use my staking set as I have a particular punch with a soft flat tip which is ideal for the purpose.

Ah ok! That makes sense. Although it does sound a bit cumbersome/tedious to have to manually hold the movement in position in a jewelling/staking tool to support the jewel when fitting hands.

[Mark]

23 hours ago, ifibrin said:

cumbersome/tedious

There are many cumbersome and tedious tasks in watch repair, this is not one of them in my opinion

Try removing the black tar gaskets from a 1970s Omega for example

 

[ifibrin]

3 hours ago, Mark said:

There are many cumbersome and tedious tasks in watch repair, this is not one of them in my opinion

Try removing the black tar gaskets from a 1970s Omega for example

 

That’s true! Those tasks sound like they would require nerves of steel. You sound like a very patient man on YouTube, which was what started me on the journey actually.

I’m just trying to imagine how to hold the movement perfectly perpendicular to the base of the jeweling tool, with the correct movement jewel supported on the anvil/stump, while the hand to be fitted is at the correct position on the pivot, and the flat pusher in position to push the hand home on the pivot. Sounds like you would need more than 10 fingers!

Edited June 27, 2022 by ifibrin

[JJH76]

I made a 3D print movement holder that fits nicely and posted the cad files at this link. https://grabcad.com/library/seagull-st19-venus-175-movement-holder-1

Edited January 2, 2023 by JJH76