Watch cleaning fluids

[Edifred]

I use a relatively basic ultrasonic cleaning machine using dedicated cleaner. I then rinse in water (I think I need to use distilled water really) and then rinse in IPA.

For a simple hobbyist who is not going to spend on professional cleaning machines is this about right or are there better solutions I should be using?

[mikepilk]

Have a look here https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/3552-cleaning-fluids/

 

[Paul80]

There are a lot of professionals who only use ultrasonic cleaners, the ol rotary cleaners you see used by some do not clean any better than U/S.

I use a dedicated cleaner by Elma then two rinses in IPA, never had any issues with what I use.

The cleaner I use is Elma Red so needs to be mixed with distilled water hence the two ipa rinses to get rid of all traces of water from the cleaner.

There are quite a few options available as the cleaner some commercial and some diy.  Simple mineral spirits or lighter fluid an be used at a push.

[watchweasol]

Hi   I think it all depends on the required useage, If you are doing a handfull of watches a week  The ultrasonic is ideal. There has been many discussions on what fluids to use from members, some using their own recipe. As stated By Paul80 he uses Elma red with the Ipa rinse and it does what he wants and is happy with the results others advocate Naptha, Benzine, Lighter fuel so its a case of trying out various fluids, comercial or otherwise to acheive the results you personaly are happy with.  Its a whole can of worms.

[grsnovi]

3 hours ago, Edifred said:

For a simple hobbyist who is not going to spend on professional cleaning machines is this about right or are there better solutions I should be using?

I think you have to determine what your own personal goals are. Like you, I don't see myself EVER getting a professional cleaning machine. I'm also not likely going to worry about ever getting any movement that I take apart back to chronometer standards. I'm also not likely to ever work on a watch that belongs to anyone other than me or (at least) charge anyone to service a watch (most wristwatches are quartz anyway and I don't expect to go there).

You just need to be aware of what IPA can do to shellac if your components stay in it too long. My problem seems to be letting the parts go through a 20 minute US cycle in IPA without thinking that I had tossed in the pallet and balance.

[gbyleveldt]

1 hour ago, grsnovi said:

Like you, I don't see myself EVER getting a professional cleaning machine.

You know Gary, till last week I had this exact view. But I made a naughty and ended up with 13 * 4205, 11 * 7S26, 8 * 7002 and 9 * 6309 movements in various Seiko lots. And I’m thinking I’d rather remove an eye with a blunt spoon that try and manually going through my current regime of cleaning movements. So I’m actually seriously considering getting a rotating cleaning machine. If ever I needed to justify the expense, this would be it 

[Neverenoughwatches]

33 minutes ago, gbyleveldt said:

manually going through my current regime of cleaning movements. So I’m actually seriously considering getting a rotating cleaning machine.

What is your cleaning routine Gert. We can all compare and choose the most efficient, a lot cheaper than a dedicated rotary device unless its homemade. Strangely enough i nearly bought another used pillar drill at last Thursday's booter. 25 bettseys. Ive now come up with an even more random bizarre cleaner. I just keep getting more and more wierd . I think its something they put in the water here. Men become more wierd and womens boobs are bigger than anywhere else on the planet. Go figure. 

37 minutes ago, gbyleveldt said:

You know Gary, till last week I had this exact view. But I made a naughty and ended up with 13 * 4205, 11 * 7S26, 8 * 7002 and 9 * 6309 movements in various Seiko lots. And I’m thinking I’d rather remove an eye with a blunt spoon that try and manually going through my current regime of cleaning movements. So I’m actually seriously considering getting a rotating cleaning machine. If ever I needed to justify the expense, this would be it 

What on earth are you going to do with 41 Seikos ? Are you some kind of ocd time dependent octopus  

Edited June 13, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[grsnovi]

2 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

You know Gary, till last week I had this exact view.

But you already have a microscope, so what else is there to spend your money on besides one of these:

[Neverenoughwatches]

18 minutes ago, grsnovi said:

But you already have a microscope, so what else is there to spend your money on besides one of these:

Aw no that takes all the hardwork and fun out of it.  Noooooooooooo

[HectorLooi]

4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

What on earth are you going to do with 41 Seikos ? Are you some kind of ocd time dependent octopus

@gbyleveldt won't be able to reply for awhile. He'll be too exhausted winding them up. 

[Paul80]

I know my cleaning regime is quite basic but it does work.

I strip everything down to component level, inspect all parts under the microscope to check for wear, pegwood all the jewels and bushes and give a quick hand clean with the cleaning fluid and a paint brush to remove any large deposits, which also extends the life of the main cleaning wash.

All parts are then sorted into little baskets which are then put in the jar with the cleaner, this is then cleaned for 10 minutes in the US Elma recommend 10 minutes max for their Elma Red, then it's 10 minutes in the first IPA rinse followed by another 10 in the second IPA.

The Ballance and Pallet are cleaned in Essence of Renata.

The above routine seems to work well for me with no dirt showing once cleaned.

I know some don't like Elma Red because it's water based although the most anything is in it is 10 Minutes and nothing used in a watch is going to rust in 10 minutes. Also if left for longer than 10 minutes and your components have and flakey plating it may remove it for you, but I see that as a positive as it's better to remove it in the wash than have it flake off and jam a movement.

It's also cheap and some don't buy cheap out of principal

[gbyleveldt]

8 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

What is your cleaning routine Gert. 

Hey Rich, currently it’s manual cleaning (using ammoniated solution) of gunked up parts (mostly main spring barrels and other parts with loads of old grease/oil), then dunking pretty much everything into various parts baskets, then into the US with same ammoniated solution). Let that stew for 10 minutes in US, remove, dry, then it all goes into distilled water, 10 minutes in US, remove, dry, then 10 minutes again in distilled water, remove, dry, take off the balance and chuck that with uncleaned pallet fork in Naptha, chuck the rest in IPA (no US). After that it is dried manually using a puffer. In some parts, there might be a slight blotchy opaque residue that comes off with Rodico. Now I guess it won’t be too bad if I completely strip all movements of the same type and chuck the whole lot through the cleaning process but I’m uneasy with that as there will be no way to determine if a part came from movement 1 or from movement 8 for example. And repeating this long process 13 times is not appealing, let alone 41 times. Whereas I’m thinking in a watch machine I can still stick to one watch at a time but it’ll be dip, wash, spin, next stage, dip, wash, spin, etc. A lot less physical movement of individual parts baskets. Not sure if I’m being clear as to the problem.

8 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

 I just keep getting more and more wierd . I think its something they put in the water here. Men become more wierd and womens boobs are bigger than anywhere else on the planet. Go figure. 

I think the word you’re looking for is eccentric. It happens when you spend too much time in the basement, only to surface occasionally to take a leak and scavenge for food and beer.

8 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

What on earth are you going to do with 41 Seikos ? Are you some kind of ocd time dependent octopus  

Heh, it would appear that I’ve developed Diderot syndrome. I’m just relieved that @diderot managed to identify the symptoms. I anxiously await to hear from him if there’s a cure. Till then it looks like I’ll be cleaning watches.

5 hours ago, grsnovi said:

But you already have a microscope, so what else is there to spend your money on besides one of these:

I’ve already explained my foolproof method at how to sneak new toys into the house without the missus realising. I suspect that that would be a stretch for even me with my impressive skill set.

3 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

@gbyleveldt won't be able to reply for awhile. He'll be too exhausted winding them up. 

No no, I might still be able to reply. When I surface for beer and a snack. If I’m not too high from the ammonia vapours in the small basement

Edited June 14, 2022 by gbyleveldt

[Edifred]

Thanks everyone really useful

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 hours ago, Paul80 said:

know some don't like Elma Red because it's water based although the most anything is in it is 10 Minutes and nothing used in a watch is going to rust in 10 minutes. 

I think the key here Paul if you are using anything  water based is to get the rinse on and everything thoroughly dried as quick as possible. I know from bad experience any delay with this can give a bad result. Oxidation starts as soon as the parts are in the open air so need to be hitting the ipa straight away. This step of rinsing should definitely not be missed. I do wonder if the parts are not dried before rinsing what effect H2O traces have on the ipa content and should a fresh batch be used regularly. Obviously youve never had a problem  but just out of curiosity Paul how long have you been cleaning this way ?

2 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

Not sure if I’m being clear as to the problem.

10 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha Gert mate, no I'm just not getting it. Is it possible for you to explain it in much more detail for me you very vague person you. 

[gbyleveldt]

24 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha Gert mate, no I'm just not getting it. Is it possible for you to explain it in much more detail for me you very vague person you. 

[Paul80]

I have been doing watch repairs for six months so it's only about that for my method.

I will say it's literally only a takes couple of seconds to move the basket from the cleaning jar to first IPA jar so it's not sitting around wet with water.

The IPA rinses get changed faster than the cleaning solution.