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Hello everyone, I recently inherited a Timex Time Machine (1972) from my late grandfather. This was a watch that he used to frequently wear in his younger years but at some point I assume the watch stopped working. After inheriting it I decided to take it to a watch repair shop to see if it needed a battery. Once the repairman placed the battery in the watch it started ticking only for a few seconds. He explained that the watch was wanting to tick but due to this model being a hybrid piece (half mechanical and half quartz) it would be incredibly hard to repair. He was not exactly sure but he believed that it was possible that one of the circuits was fried, due to the watch ticking for only a few seconds after shaking. He explained that the main spring was able to move but due to circuit not working the polarity of the magnets was not able to wind the watch.

So this brings me to my current situation. I am just looking for a place with answers because there is very little information online about this watch. If anyone knows where I could find a replacement movement, either an M62 to match the current or possibly a movement that would fit inside my current housing and allow it to tick I would be very grateful. Any help is appreciated -LB

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Welcome to the forum Logan! I'm certain that there will be some Timex experts here to help soon. A lot of the folks here are on the other side of the world. I don't know Timex in particular (or most any watches truth be told) but to me, I'm wondering about the battery cover as shown in your shot: is that the way the guy left it after he put in the new battery? The cover doesn't look closed to me and on other quartz watches I know if the cover isn't closed correctly there won't be a circuit. Also, in the 1970's there were 1.35v mercury batteries that were popular. If that make Timex wanted one of those there wouldn't be an obvious perfect replacement available today. I only know this because I have a camera from that same year and getting a replacement battery is a bit of a trick.

I would expect that anyone here who would be of any help is going to want to see the inside of the watch. Have you tried to open it? If so, post a shot with the case back removed.

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I would first suggest to clean the case of the watch before opening the case back.   This is to avoid getting any debris into the movement as the case back is lifted. Begin by removing the bracelet first.  Once the bracelet is removed you can use a soft cloth, old tooth brush and such with warm soapy water to wipe away any exterior grime or dirt.  Wipe with cloth, do not dunk or rinse. 

You will see a notch above the battery hatch.  This allows for a tool to be inserted and to lift the caseback.  See attached photo.  You just need a thin tipped tool to insert and pry up.

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On 6/6/2022 at 8:01 PM, Lobangg said:

If anyone knows where I could find a replacement movement, either an M62 to match the current or possibly a movement that would fit inside my current housing and allow it to tick

According to Ranfft, a extremely useful online resource (I can't say enough about how useful it is)...

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Timex_M63

If you can't find a M62, you might be able to use a M51.  I don't have a M62 to hold along side of an M51 but from what I see it should fit/work.  If your date ring and stem interchange, I don't think you could tell the difference from the outside.  It would just no longer be quartz controled.  The down side, it would be somewhat less accurate and possibly have a shorter battery life.  If you can't find one (they should be fairly common) I should I have one.  We can discuss that if necessary.

Shane

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Awesome! Thanks for the help, I just got my kit and was able to open the watch. It looks the same as some of the M62’s i’ve seen in photos. I found a M62 movement on eBay and purchased it. However, it didn’t not say if it worked or not so it’s sort of a gamble but fingers crossed.

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so why do you believe this movement is no good?...  Drop in a 303/357 battery with the back open now.  Just hold in it place with a finger.  Than give the balance wheel a flick.  Does t run?  Try to run?... I will almost gauntee you the M62 you just bought does not work or will stop working soon after you get it.  The reason is you can't take a 40+ years mechnical item and just jump start it... thjey need lubrication, clean electric contact etc.

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14 minutes ago, Lobangg said:

I put the battery in the watch and was not able to get movement out of the second hand. It did not even try to start.

Sometimes the contact wire is not in contact with the contact pin. You might need to do a wrist flick to get the balance wheel moving.

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12 hours ago, Lobangg said:

I put the battery in the watch and was not able to get movement out of the second hand. It did not even try to start.

did you try to swing the balance wheel?   If not give it a try.  This is just to get the power train in motion.  It may take a number of attempts.  Another issue might be that the contact wire has oxidized, so moving the balance will help with contact.   If this does not work you can try to trace the voltage across the circuit.  Or you can also measure the ohms of resistance as well.  If you want to short cut this step just remove the circuit boars all together. Then jump the two leads of the contact wire.  Put the battery back in and flick the balance.  If she starts up you know it is likely a bad circuit board.  

Check that the crown stem is pushed in too.  If you remove the board, I suggest you take a good phot first and lay out the various screws in the order you take them out.  They are all different and must be inserted back in the same location.

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As a first time vintage Timex this is one of the most difficult!  

 

13 hours ago, Shane said:

The electronic package in the M62 is supposedly photo sensitive.  Not sure how a bright light actually affects it but try dimming the lights while testing.  Just a shot in the dark.

Shane

first time I've seen this mentioned.  

 

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6 hours ago, JerseyMo said:

Check that the crown stem is pushed in too

God yes.  I have overlooked this as well.  If you pull the stem out it mechanically stops the watch by keeping balance from rotating and making the circuit.  It is for longer term storage.  It looks and acts like it is over-banked.

6 hours ago, JerseyMo said:

first time I've seen this mentioned.  

As per Timex:

"CAUTION; DO NOT place the watch under a high intensity light when checking or adjusting rate.  The electronic circuit may be temporarily affected resulting in erroneous rate readings"

My understanding is that some transistors can't tell photons from electrons and the don't specify what "erroneous" looks like.  My thoughts were that the photo-sensitivity would certainly not improve with age.  Probably not the problem but would cost nothing to rule out.

Shane

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Update: So I just recieved this other watch from ebay, the same model movement and everything. Once taking the band off I was able to fit a battery in and it started ticking. However it started to tick for like 30 seconds and then it stopped. At the time I had not checked the forum and was not aware about the photosensitivity of the circuit. While the watch was working I noticed a brown coil moving back and forth below the mainspring which is different from my other one that I am trying to repair. I think the replacement watch I bought has promise but I am unsure of how long the circuit could be affected or if I messed it up while exposing it to light.

Reupdate: After letting the watch sit closed in no light for an hour I was able to get it to start again. I put the battery in at around 1:30 pm and it has been working for around 15-20 minutes so far. I am in a dilemma because I am not sure what the best plan of action would be. I don't feel comfortable working on the watches myself so I am trying to decide what the best course of action would be. I believe there is some watch shops in my town that could swap the movements on the watch to the red dial, however to keep it running continuously I think it needs to be serviced and cleaned. 

Before finding this new watch I found a watch repair website called clevelandwatchrepair.com. I spoke to him and he said he could clean and most likely restore the red dial watch for around $200 with spare donor parts from other watches. I'm just unsure what my best plan of action would be. Any opinion is appreciated.

Video of watch running: 

 

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2 hours ago, Lobangg said:

but I am unsure of how long the circuit could be affected or if I messed it up while exposing it to light.

The effects of most light exposure should be temporary, only while it is being exposed to the bright light.  The photons fill the holes (the absence of electrons) in the positively doped areas of the transistors just like the intended logic signals do with actual electrons.  Changing gain, opening and/or closing transistors without any control.  Turn the lights down less photons get through to cause these problems.  Once closed into the metal watchcase it should be a non-issue.  I also want to be clear, I'm not sure if it was an issue with you here.  Just something to keep in the back of our minds.  Gremlins.

Shane

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Most transistors are photo transistors to some degree, which is one of the chief reasons why most ICs are encapsulated. That, and to protect them from harsh environments of course. 

Interestingly most semiconductor junctions also are sensitive to ionising radiation, gamma rays and x-rays (and static electricity).

Some solid state radiation monitors for example use a sensitive type of pin diode as a detector in place of a bulkier and more fragile Geiger Muller tube. See also -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_detector

Back when the world was young I picked up some ancient OC71 germanium transistors from Browns Electronics in Edinburgh (sadly long defunct). 

The idea was to use them as photo transistors (I can't remember what I was using them for, but it was probably some light triggered alarm or some other simple project).

The manufacturer sold a version of the same transistor which was more costly. The trick was to scrape off the black paint on the device, and expose the clear acrylic that they were potted in. Once the light could hit the germanium die, they looked, and behaved exactly the same as the more expensive manufacturers phototransistor version.

Timex's warning seems odd, as the IC appears to be in a ceramic package with a gold lid, so should be light tight. Maybe they also sold a bare die version of the mechanism from time to time. Quite a few LED watches have bare die LEDs in them, and I have seen some cheap Hong Kong LCD watches with a bare die IC glued to the PCB and wire bonded to the PCB tracks. This would be the cheapest of the cheap construction, as mainly this style of layout is then potted with the ubiquitous "black blob" of epoxy. I guess at the price point which they were working, even omitting the epoxy gave them a competitive edge, at the expense of long term reliability.

Edited by AndyHull
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7 hours ago, AndyHull said:

Most transistor...

Andyhull,

You bring a fabulous insist to the conversation and I concede to you this subject.  I did not consider other more energetic forms of electromagnetic radiation but that totally makes sense.  My cousin also had the same interpretation of the IC's packaging and if true should be almost, if not, totally opaque.  I, myself was unable/willing to discount Timex's CYA warnings, at least for this production run without the consensus of a more experienced group.  It's not my field and I don't have a to look at for confirmation.

On 6/6/2022 at 8:01 PM, Lobangg said:

movement that would fit

If Lobangg, the OP was interested in installing a "serviced" M51 movement into his Grandfather's watch, I would be willing to trade one for the two M62 movements.  I would like to take a look at them and if repairable, possibly, send one back to him.

Shane

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 Sorry but, to me it is not that complicated.  It is just an old watch that has not run for a long time.  Take the KISS approach.   Old watch, old lube, maybe a bad board.  so first off see if the movement at least runs without the board installed and take it from there.

So now you have two M62 watches that don't work!  Before you know it there will be a third and a fourth.   

 

On 6/10/2022 at 4:43 PM, Shane said:

As per Timex:

"CAUTION; DO NOT place the watch under a high intensity light when checking or adjusting rate.  The electronic circuit may be temporarily affected resulting in erroneous rate readings"

 

what document does this come from?

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13 minutes ago, JerseyMo said:

what document does this come from?

A link provided in "Timex M24 fast" back in April also had information on the M62, as well as other Timex movements.

https://heritage1854.com/m24

JerseyMo,

I also think you're probably correct with the movement just needing to be completely serviced.  But... I just wanted to bring Timex's concerns into the discussion Incase they might have been relevant.  If not for this situation, than possibly for someone's at some time.

Shane

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On 6/11/2022 at 12:21 PM, Lobangg said:

Update: So I just recieved this other watch from ebay, the same model movement and everything. Once taking the band off I was able to fit a battery in and it started ticking. However it started to tick for like 30 seconds and then it stopped.

 

From my position I think you gave up on the first watch too soon by looking for a replacement movement.  Sorry but as they say on "Shark Tank"  and for that reason I'm out.   

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