Stopgap mainspring winder

[Kalanag]

Inspired by the Mastercraft winder I tried to use its principle for a „quick and dirty“ mainspring winder.

The spring I used for testing has an arbor diameter of 2,2mm (left wound) and the barrel has an ID of 8mm. The mainspring has a hight of 1,2mm. So I found a washer with the right thickness of 1,2mm, drilled it to 7,5mm ID and cut a slot in with my dremel. Then the washer was fixed to a board with three tiny drops of super glue. I used the original lid and arbor and my pin vice to complete the tool. The rest is selfexplaining looking at the pics. Any thoughts?

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by Kalanag

[Kalanag]

I‘d like to add that instead of the pin vice the original ratchet wheel can possibly be used to turn the arbor and wind the spring. It‘s fiddly but…

Edited May 15, 2022 by Kalanag

[Nibbler]

Brilliant. If the arbor is to be re-used you want to make sure no damage comes to it during the process.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Nibbler

[xyzzy]

I've never been able to get enough of a grip on the arbor to turn it.  Even if just to turn it a half turn to get it to engage the notch in the spring properly.  I think i'd be worried about clamping a pin vice on the bearing surface that tight.

I did manage to make an arbor out of same brass rod.  All the arbors from the K&D adjustable winders I have were too large for a Seiko 2539A mainspring.  So some 1/16" brass rod with a notch made in it with a dremel worked great.  Probably won't last long, but it actually worked better than the real arbors.  Easier to disengage by turning backward.

[watchweasol]

Hi  The main thing is did it work and no damage if yess then smart thinking. As xyzzy said might be better to fabricate a false arbour to avoid damage to the original surface.  with a little inginuity you could improvise and make a set as an when required a clever alternative to the expensive  winders.  I like the idea.

[Kalanag]

53 minutes ago, xyzzy said:

I've never been able to get enough of a grip on the arbor to turn it.  Even if just to turn it a half turn to get it to engage the notch in the spring properly.  I think i'd be worried about clamping a pin vice on the bearing surface that tight.

I clamped the arbor on the pinion square not touching the bearing surface! So even transfering the torque required to draw the end of the automatic spring in is no problem (with a little help of tweezers).

Edited May 15, 2022 by Kalanag

[RichardHarris123]

Necessity is the mother of invention.  Well done. 

[xyzzy]

1 hour ago, Kalanag said:

I clamped the arbor on the pinion square not touching the bearing surface! So even transfering the torque required to draw the end of the automatic spring in is no problem (with a little help of tweezers).

I've tried that, but the square part of the arbor is was never long enough to get a grip on with the pin vice.  Maybe I just need better pin vices.

[Paul80]

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Necessity is the mother of invention.  Well done. 

I thought it was a lack of money was the mother of invention, well it has been for me over the years with some of the gagets I have made 

[Zero]

On 5/15/2022 at 5:17 PM, Kalanag said:

Inspired by the Mastercraft winder I tried to use its principle for a „quick and dirty“ mainspring winder.

Brilliant way to emulate the Mastercraft winder! Nice idea taking advantage of the pin vise versatility.

However, what was your experience when pushing out the tail of the mainspring? It is quite a stubborn part to push out. It gets stuck between the plunger, causing the inner spring to coil over and leave the tail end sticking out of the mainspring barrel. Modern winders have very tight fitting plunging mechanisms to avoid this from happening.

I built something similar to this in the past and faced this issue.

[Kalanag]

5 hours ago, Zero said:

…However, what was your experience when pushing out the tail of the mainspring? It is quite a stubborn part to push out…

You are right! I first pushed the outer part of the spring with a screwdriver out a bit and into the barrel enough to being caught by the barrel wall. No problem with this method.

[Kalanag]

I‘m still experimenting with my „washer winder“ and the left wound mainspring of a tiny Citizen 6900 with an 8mm barrel and 2,3mm arbor.

I have to confess that grabbing the arbor on the squared portion of the pivot with a pin vice might not always work. Having a single Chinese winder for ETA 2824 with a right wind 2,5mm arbor I tried to use this arbor (the barrel is to large).

The advantage of the washer method is that you can drill the appropriate barrel diameter easily and that it doesn‘t matter whether your spring is left or right wound. You just have to flip the washer the right direction before pushing the wound spring into the barrel.

Here are some pictures showing that it worked fine. Interestingly the washer was not required to be glued in place. I could prevent the free floating washer from spinning with some axial pressure or one finger easily.

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Kalanag

[gbyleveldt]

1 hour ago, Kalanag said:

I‘m still experimenting with my „washer winder“ and the left wound mainspring of a tiny Citizen 6900 with an 8mm barrel and 2,3mm arbor.

I have to confess that grabbing the arbor on the squared portion of the pivot with a pin vice might not always work. Having a single Chinese winder for ETA 2824 with a right wind 2,5mm arbor I tried to use this arbor (the barrel is to large).

The advantage of the washer method is that you can drill the appropriate barrel diameter easily and that it doesn‘t matter whether your spring is left or right wound. You just have to flip the washer the right direction before pushing the wound spring into the barrel.

Here are some pictures showing that it worked fine. Interestingly the washer was not required to be glued in place. I could prevent the free floating washer from spinning with one finger easily.

 

Desperation is the mother of innovation. I Like It! Cool idea.

[Kalanag]

22 minutes ago, gbyleveldt said:

Desperation is the mother of innovation. I Like It! Cool idea.

Even if I invested in a priceworthy 10 sizes Chinese winder set I wouldn‘t be able to use one of these winders for this specific Citizen mainspring/barrel 

New main springs for this caliber are not available anymore.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Kalanag

[mikepilk]

Great idea, well done. I might give that a go for "odd" sized barrels.

I only have a small winder set, so I've made a couple of extra parts :

I use the 10.8mm size most but often the arbor is too big for the spring. So using a bit of brass tube in the winder hole allows the next smaller arbor to be used. 

To allow left hand springs to be wound, I made a couple of new winders. It's not hard, I only have a Dremel type drill and hand file. It's all brass apart from the pin - where I drilled a hole, knocked a bit of steel in, and filed to shape.

[Zero]

21 hours ago, Kalanag said:

I have to confess that grabbing the arbor on the squared portion of the pivot with a pin vice might not always work. Having a single Chinese winder for ETA 2824 with a right wind 2,5mm arbor I tried to use this arbor (the barrel is to large).

Is your pin vice teeth too sharp for smaller barrel arbors, causing damage? Maybe it is possible to purchase a specific "blunt" pin vice that will work for this instead of the Chinese winder handle?

Edited June 3, 2022 by Zero

[mikepilk]

15 minutes ago, Zero said:

Is your pin vice teeth too sharp for smaller barrel arbors, causing damage? Maybe it is possible to purchase a specific "blunt" pin vice that will work for this instead of the Chinese winder handle?

Or, use a scrap arbor. You could put a threaded rod in the hole, to give the pin vice something to clamp.

[Kalanag]

…or screw the ratchet wheel to the arbor and super glue a little nut on the ratchet wheel. I’ve tested this successfully. Lots of options!

54 minutes ago, Zero said:

Is your pin vice teeth too sharp for smaller barrel arbors, causing damage? …

Eventually my pin vice slips off the square while winding . Not good either! 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Kalanag

[VWatchie]

On 5/15/2022 at 11:17 AM, Kalanag said:

Inspired by the Mastercraft winder I tried to use its principle for a „quick and dirty“ mainspring winder.

On 5/15/2022 at 11:17 AM, Kalanag said:

The mainspring has a hight of 1,2mm. So I found a washer with the right thickness of 1,2mm,

I must say that I am very impressed with your ingenuity. I am one of the lucky few who owns a Master Craft Mainspring Winder, in mint condition as well. Well, what I wanted to say is that the Master Craft transfer plates are significantly thinner than the springs. I think it helps to ease the weaving of the spring into the transfer plate.

 

[GuyMontag]

On 10/22/2022 at 4:01 AM, VWatchie said:

I must say that I am very impressed with your ingenuity. I am one of the lucky few who owns a Master Craft Mainspring Winder, in mint condition as well. Well, what I wanted to say is that the Master Craft transfer plates are significantly thinner than the springs. I think it helps to ease the weaving of the spring into the transfer plate.

 

I see that the Master Craft only comes with 2 arbors. Can it handle any size of the inner coil? Just curious how with only 2 arbors it could wind mainsprings that take an arbor anywhere from 1.5mm to 5mm?