What is this brown stuff?

[Watchscience]

Hi all!

I’ve just disassembled my first watch - a cheap eta clone. 
it was actually running really well (+10 seconds), but I did buy the movement to practice so I pulled it apart, cleaned it, and discovered this brown rust-like colouring on the pallet fork. 
Is this normal? I’m hoping it isn’t rust! 

[HectorLooi]

That's shellac. It's used an adhesive to set the pallet jewels in position. That's perfectly normal.

The colour of the shellac can vary from a very light blonde to a very dark brunette.

[grsnovi]

Shellac has been used for years and its origin might surprise you. Wikipedia is your friend.

[Watchscience]

32 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

That's shellac. It's used an adhesive to set the pallet jewels in position. That's perfectly normal.

The colour of the shellac can vary from a very light blonde to a very dark brunette.

 

7 minutes ago, grsnovi said:

Shellac has been used for years and its origin might surprise you. Wikipedia is your friend.

Thanks so much for confirming! Huge relief, I thought I stuffed it up when I ran it through a clean!

im hoping to get a microscope plugged in tomorrow so I’ll be able to have better photos .

 

Thanks again!

[grsnovi]

Be careful as alcohol will dissolve it.

[Neverenoughwatches]

56 minutes ago, Watchscience said:

Hi all!

I’ve just disassembled my first watch - a cheap eta clone. 
it was actually running really well (+10 seconds), but I did buy the movement to practice so I pulled it apart, cleaned it, and discovered this brown rust-like colouring on the pallet fork. 
Is this normal? I’m hoping it isn’t rust! 

Hi ws . It has been used traditionally since the use of low friction synthetic rubies in the escapement.  You will also find it used to set the impulse jewel in place on the roller table of the balance assembly. Be careful with cleaning of these parts , ipa solvent can have a tendency to soften the schellac if left exposed to it for too long. Introducing heat to these areas softens the shellac should the jewels need to be reset.

[Watchscience]

14 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hi ws . It has been used traditionally since the use of low friction synthetic rubies in the escapement.  You will also find it used to set the impulse jewel in place on the roller table of the balance assembly. Be careful with cleaning of these parts , ipa solvent can have a tendency to soften the schellac if left exposed to it for too long. Introducing heat to these areas softens the shellac should the jewels need to be reset.

 

14 hours ago, grsnovi said:

Be careful as alcohol will dissolve it.

Thanks kindly 
yeah I made sure to avoid any alcohols when cleaning this and anything with jewels - but this is great to know, otherwise I would have gone out of my way to try and get the brown off! 
 

Incidentally, I did clean these at around 50 degree (Celsius) - hope that wasn’t hot enough to displace anything! I’ll get these under a proper microscope today and get some better photos!

[Watchscience]

ok - here it is under better magnification!

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, Watchscience said:

ok - here it is under better magnification!

The shellac still looks intact ws.  I dont think you have a problem. What was your cleaning solution ws ?

[Watchscience]

13 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

The shellac still looks intact ws.  I dont think you have a problem. What was your cleaning solution ws ?

whew, great to know!

I used a liquid called Shellite (or Recosol R55). It's basically naphta; we're fairly limited to what we can get here in Australia, and everything is super expensive to import!

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 minutes ago, Watchscience said:

whew, great to know!

I used a liquid called Shellite (or Recosol R55). It's basically naphta; we're fairly limited to what we can get here in Australia, and everything is super expensive to import!

I've not heard of that but sounds like its designed to protect the shellac. I noticed you mentioned cleaning at 50 degrees. Please be careful with naptha around this temperature regarding its flashpoint. Im assuming it was in a glass jar in the sonic bath.

[Watchscience]

8 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I've not heard of that but sounds like its designed to protect the shellac. I noticed you mentioned cleaning at 50 degrees. Please be careful with naptha around this temperature regarding its flashpoint. Im assuming it was in a glass jar in the sonic bath.

Yes correct - ultrasonic cleaner in a glass jar.. thankfully nothing went wrong, but i think in future i'll change this to 40 degrees instead. no need to go so hot..

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 minutes ago, Watchscience said:

Yes correct - ultrasonic cleaner in a glass jar.. thankfully nothing went wrong, but i think in future i'll change this to 40 degrees instead. no need to go so hot..

I think the reduction in temp will have little effect on the cleaning as its mostly the vibrations that get the cleaning done. And much safer . Im curious as to how clean you are getting the parts with this product you are using. I do use naptha but not one specified for cleaning watch parts. 

[Watchscience]

2 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I think the reduction in temp will have little effect on the cleaning as its mostly the vibrations that get the cleaning done. And much safer . Im curious as to how clean you are getting the parts with this product you are using. I do use naptha but not one specified for cleaning watch parts. 

To be honest, this is the first time i've ever cleaned any watch parts. Not only that, the parts came from a brand new movement which was pretty clean to begin with!

Once I finish putting this one together i'll do my first real full service project with an old trench watch which is super dirty and not working.

I'll pop some photos and my thoughts on the results and let you know!

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 minutes ago, Watchscience said:

To be honest, this is the first time i've ever cleaned any watch parts. Not only that, the parts came from a brand new movement which was pretty clean to begin with!

Once I finish putting this one together i'll do my first real full service project with an old trench watch which is super dirty and not working.

I'll pop some photos and my thoughts on the results and let you know!

That will be a completely different experience ws. We look forward to hearing about and helping you with that one. There are some very knowledgable  pros here that I'm sure will give you their time with that one.

[Watchscience]

i'll be honest ..... the whole process so far has been just as hard as i thought it would be!

i suspect (and thoroughly hope) that it gets easier with practice.

Nevertheless, i've loved the experience so far!

[Neverenoughwatches]

17 minutes ago, Watchscience said:

i'll be honest ..... the whole process so far has been just as hard as i thought it would be!

i suspect (and thoroughly hope) that it gets easier with practice.

Nevertheless, i've loved the experience so far!

Good attitude to have mate. A lot of folk underestimate right from the beginning what is involved and then get sorely disappointed and eventually give it up as a bad job. Some you tube vids dont help either as they make it look far too easy. Some days will be great others you will be tearing your hair out over. This just doesn't  apply to beginners either, guys that have been doing it for years still have problems. Take the rough with the smooth, the good with the bad. Enjoy the challenges rather than fear them and just work through them as you would anything in life. A calm logical approach is your best friend, if frustration starts to ensue be sure you know when you need a cuppa break or else it can end up a watch break. But most of all enjoy this fascinating rewarding hobby whatever each encounter brings. Good to have you here my mate