RCRussell

[RCRussell]

Hello,

I have an antique watch.  It's not working, so weighing my options; is it worth fixing, should I have someone else fix it, should I try fixing it myself if value is low?

Rob

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 minutes ago, RCRussell said:

Hello,

I have an antique watch.  It's not working, so weighing my options; is it worth fixing, should I have someone else fix it, should I try fixing it myself if value is low?

Rob

Can we have photos mate. 

[RCRussell]

[Nucejoe]

Thats a beautiful watch.  

Does the oscilator run when you shake the watch?     How long ?

Stick around and watch Mark Lovics videos, you'll learn how to service it yourself.

Welcome to WRT forum pal.

[RCRussell]

Is that the wheel with pegs with a spring? Nothing moves after shaking, but it does move with help.

 

 

[grsnovi]

If I have read the s/n correctly (3273079) that Elgin was made in 1889.

Some additional data here.

They always suggest that you start your journey to watch repair with a pocket watch and that sure is a pretty pocket watch. Certainly the gold in the case is worth something. If the watch has sentimental value you might want to have it appraised and have somebody give you an idea what it might cost to repair.

It's possible that the mainspring is broken.

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 hours ago, RCRussell said:

Hi RC. I would say you first need to find out the  value of it working and non working and also attain a  cost to have it repaired professionally. A 14 carat gold watch is going to be quite valuable sentimental or not and more so working. Unless you intend to turn this into a full time hobby anyway the cost of some decent tools to repair it will offset its value. But you are in the right place to start learning and get help and you almost have the right project to start with. A cheap pocket watch to practice on first would be your best option and unless this one just needs a service you may need one or two of those anyway to provide some parts. 

[Nucejoe]

4 hours ago, RCRussell said:

Is that the wheel with pegs with a spring? Nothing moves after shaking, but it does move with help.

Yes thats the one, called oscilator or balance. 

If the balance wheel can be tilted a pivot or jewel is broke. 

Use an oiler to GENTLY tilt the balance wheel.

 

[JohnR725]

I thought I would remind everyone of something here? Just in case you're new to pocket watches. This watch uses lever setting so if you pull really hard on the crown thinking going to set the watch you're not. If you pull hard enough you're going to break something. In order to get the watch to go in the setting mode the lever which I circled in the picture attached has to be pulled out a little bit.

I have a link below that shows the various setting methods and I think could've done a better job of describing things. The reason lever setting exists is it's the evolution of going from key set watches do something different. Later they understand how to make pendant setting watches. But in between we have lever setting. If it's a watch without a hunting case in other words it doesn't have a protective led the reference to removing the bezel means that you would just unscrew the bezel. In other words you wouldn't have to pry it off it would just unscrew the bezel with the crystal.

Then more than likely the watch is not running because it hasn't been serviced in a very long time. The organic oils have a good characteristic of getting sticky  hardening up and that keeps the watch from running which in reality is a good thing. It's good because that means you don't continue to run the watch forever with no oil at all wearing things out. Providing it hasn't been dropped breaking the balance staff or damaging it it probably just needs a cleaning and a new mainspring.

then while the recommendation is to start with a pocket watch this is not the pocket watch to start on. First off it's a small size pocket watch. Second it's a vintage pocket watch that looks like it's a really nice condition. People often times brand-new to watch repair have a habit of well mysteriously things will happen in the watch might get damaged. Usually best to start on something inexpensive I usually recommend the Chinese clone of the 6497 it's a running watch if you taken apart and put it back together and it's not running well it does make it easier to figure out who's problem that is versus starting with a nonrunning pocket watch and just assuming it's the watch fault that it's still not running. Besides a watch like this the parts are going to be difficult to get.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/reference/setting-types#Lever

 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

32 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I thought I would remind everyone of something here? Just in case you're new to pocket watches. This watch uses lever setting so if you pull really hard on the crown thinking going to set the watch you're not. If you pull hard enough you're going to break something. In order to get the watch to go in the setting mode the lever which I circled in the picture attached has to be pulled out a little bit.

I have a link below that shows the various setting methods and I think could've done a better job of describing things. The reason lever setting exists is it's the evolution of going from key set watches do something different. Later they understand how to make pendant setting watches. But in between we have lever setting. If it's a watch without a hunting case in other words it doesn't have a protective led the reference to removing the bezel means that you would just unscrew the bezel. In other words you wouldn't have to pry it off it would just unscrew the bezel with the crystal.

Then more than likely the watch is not running because it hasn't been serviced in a very long time. The organic oils have a good characteristic of getting sticky  hardening up and that keeps the watch from running which in reality is a good thing. It's good because that means you don't continue to run the watch forever with no oil at all wearing things out. Providing it hasn't been dropped breaking the balance staff or damaging it it probably just needs a cleaning and a new mainspring.

then while the recommendation is to start with a pocket watch this is not the pocket watch to start on. First off it's a small size pocket watch. Second it's a vintage pocket watch that looks like it's a really nice condition. People often times brand-new to watch repair have a habit of well mysteriously things will happen in the watch might get damaged. Usually best to start on something inexpensive I usually recommend the Chinese clone of the 6497 it's a running watch if you taken apart and put it back together and it's not running well it does make it easier to figure out who's problem that is versus starting with a nonrunning pocket watch and just assuming it's the watch fault that it's still not running. Besides a watch like this the parts are going to be difficult to get.

https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/reference/setting-types#Lever

 

 

Good call John, similar thoughts to mine and very well explained . And thank you for the mention of the setting lever, I'm thinking I want to learn more about pocket watches after my recent acquisition.  The fusee are amazing to watch inside . The one I have has slowed down to one oscillation every 2 or 3 seconds. I want to strip down and service but a little concerned about dealing with the fusee . Looks like I will have to man up. RC have it looked at first mate just so you know what you are dealing with, like John says as an absolute beginner it's very very easy to bugger things up that goes without question. And honestly mate you really don't want to do that to such a beautiful watch.

[JohnR725]

8 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

The one I have has slowed down to one oscillation every 2 or 3 seconds

oh? That's probably a servicing issue but just a reminder for pocket watches?

something that people forget about is different frequencies of pocket watches can run at? I don't have an exact time frame the indication is the 1880s in the US. we end up with the terms quick train and slow train? for instance at the link up above that someone has the pocket watch database for this watch you go down the list and the get to the word train the lacrosse and you'll see the word quick so this Elgin is a quick train.

the definition is quick train is 18,000 beats per hour probably the most common frequency of watches ever made. But slowly train is 16,200 beats per hour. That presents a confusion to someone trying to time a vintage typically clean a key while American pocket watch because it won't auto range to the proper range on your timing machine. If you grasp the problem you can manually set the machine to 16,200 and hopefully time your watch. The reference to hopefully is that a lot of people of played with your watch since it was made and well timing issues can occur.

then if we go back in time farther key winding typically then you can end up with a variety of frequencies as there may not a been any kind of the standard because nobody had timing machines. There are standards in that you restricted by size and how much power you had in a watch. As the makers were buying components they would be standard components but they don't necessarily have to have a standard frequency. Which explains wife you look at the timing machine in your manual setting  mode there is a heck of a lot of frequencies that you didn't know existed.

Now if we were talking clocks then that's why they have books that list all the different frequencies because they could be just about anything. It's also why clockmakers timing machines typically measure beats per hour as opposed to how fast or slow it is in seconds per day.

 

[RCRussell]

All,

Thank you for some ideas. I was aware of the lever.  It has some specs of  dust/dirt on the face.  So, I too was thinking it needed a good cleaning and maybe a main spring.  I had watched a video on repairs and I am aware of the cost of tools.  Any ballpark estimates on its value?   

Rob

[Nucejoe]

7 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Yes thats the one, called oscilator or balance. 

If the balance wheel can be tilted a pivot or jewel is broke. 

Use an oiler to GENTLY tilt the balance wheel.

 

correction.   

Use an oiker to gently check for the tilt of the balance wheel.

[JohnR725]

8 hours ago, RCRussell said:

Any ballpark estimates on its value? 

the easiest place to get a value unless you want to pay somebody which costs money would be to look on eBay. Then don't look at the prices people think they can get for the watch but look at the what did they actually sell for.

then the bad news is it's probably worth the value of the gold as scrap. As this is a smaller pocket watches is basically a ladies pocket watch they tend to have lesser value. So basically you take the movement out the way the gold you figure out what it's worth and that's the minimum it's worth. 

you also want to be careful when pushing on the balance wheel because of you can push on it you'll probably break the pivots yourself. It's best not to push on the balance wheel until you get a good feel for what you're doing.

okay here's an example of a similar type watch and the pricing although I did go back look to your pictures again because you have the paper label that might bump the price up a little bit maybe

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175268785551

then just as a reminder you can follow the sale up above but despite all the words of rarer and valuable and all that sort of stuff see if at the end nine days whether the watch even sells? It'd be better if we found one that had already sold you could see with the real prices.

 

 

[diveboy]

Stunning case and crisp movement in it.

[Michael1962]

Welcome to the forum @RCRussell

That is a great looking watch. definitely look into getting it sorted out. If you have interest in doing watches as a hobby, I wouldn't be starting out with yours. Others above have given som great information.

All the best with it.