pocketwatch Looking for help replacing various jewels on several Elgin 16s Grade 313 15j movemements

[Levine98]

Hi,

I've posted about my challenges sorting out broken jewels on three separate movements in another thread (see below).

At this point however I've decided that the job requires skills, materials and tools that I do not posses (with skills being the most critical void). That said, I'd like to find some help and am willing to pay to have the work done.

I've reached out to JD Richards on two separate channels (his gmail account and this forum's messenger service), since I believe he does this kind of service, however he has not responded--so not sure if he is otherwise engaged or simply not interested. 

If anyone else on the board is a serious hobbyists with the proper qualifications and is willing to take this kind of job on for a fee (or knows of others who they can refer me to), please message me directly or feel free to contact me directly using my personal contact info below.

These movements are not valuable or historically significant IMHO-they were purchased for less than $50 each on eBay as learning platforms for me as I attempt to teach myself basic watch repair through on-line courses, reading and practical experience.

In that sense, these movements have been 'successful'. However having reached the limit of my skill with these particular movements, I would like to see them in working order so I can case them up and hand them off to friends/family as originally planned .

Thanks in adavnace--Levine98

(804) 998-3519

*****@*****.tld

Edited April 30, 2022 by Levine98
edit

[grsnovi]

Just curious (as I also have 2 of those - at least one of which has cracked jewels)...

...what do you plan to case them with? or did you happen to find them in cases?

[ifibrin]

I took a look at your original thread, and saw that the  needed replacements for are the rubbed in sort. Technically, this means that replacement of these jewels is going to be more difficult than the modern friction sort, which only require a Seitz type tool which presses the jewel out, and the replacement jewel pressed in.

In jewels that are rubbed in to the mainplate, replacement of the jewels is quite time consuming. After removal of the damaged jewel by shattering it,  the lip of metal that originally held it has to be opened. You then have to find a jewel with the right pivot hole, and right diameter, fit it in, then close the metal lip again. Do note that rubbed in jewels are not shaped like normal friction jewels, and are rounded at the edges, making purchasing them difficult. End shake adjustments of rubbed in jewels are also quite difficult to achieve.

Even if you wanted to change the jewel type to friction fit, you would need a lathe to open the original hole to the right size.

I am sorry to say, but I would expect that if you wanted to pay someone to do this, it would probably cost you $200 per movement, unless the person is doing this for his own practice/hobby. Even then, buying the replacement jewel might cost at least $50, if they can be found at all.

I would suggest you save your money, and buy a working movement from somewhere else...

 

[Daniel123]

33 minutes ago, ifibrin said:

I took a look at your original thread, and saw that the  needed replacements for are the rubbed in sort. Technically, this means that replacement of these jewels is going to be more difficult than the modern friction sort, which only require a Seitz type tool which presses the jewel out, and the replacement jewel pressed in.

In jewels that are rubbed in to the mainplate, replacement of the jewels is quite time consuming. After removal of the damaged jewel by shattering it,  the lip of metal that originally held it has to be opened. You then have to find a jewel with the right pivot hole, and right diameter, fit it in, then close the metal lip again. Do note that rubbed in jewels are not shaped like normal friction jewels, and are rounded at the edges, making purchasing them difficult. End shake adjustments of rubbed in jewels are also quite difficult to achieve.

Even if you wanted to change the jewel type to friction fit, you would need a lathe to open the original hole to the right size.

I am sorry to say, but I would expect that if you wanted to pay someone to do this, it would probably cost you $200 per movement, unless the person is doing this for his own practice/hobby. Even then, buying the replacement jewel might cost at least $50, if they can be found at all.

I would suggest you save your money, and buy a working movement from somewhere else...

 

Hi

Would you have a go yourself? There are a few tutorials on YouTube, I’ve changed a couple of jewels over using peg wood. Obviously it’s better using jeweling tools but extremely expensive to buy. 
 

This is the tutorial I used

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Daniel123

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, ifibrin said:

Do note that rubbed in jewels are not shaped like normal friction jewels, and are rounded at the edges, making purchasing them difficult.

I've seen where people will put the modern jewel in the burnished in setting the problem is it's not the right size shape and can have issues. The best is to modify a modern jewel which can be done if you have access to diamond lap sexy quite simple but still you have to modify the jewel to fit the original burnished in setting.

1 hour ago, ifibrin said:

Even if you wanted to change the jewel type to friction fit, you would need a lathe to open the original hole to the right size.

according the book you don't need a lathe. The only minor problem with the pictures below is that to open up the hole big enough for friction jewel oftentimes they become really big.

[Levine98]

2 hours ago, grsnovi said:

Just curious (as I also have 2 of those - at least one of which has cracked jewels)...

...what do you plan to case them with? or did you happen to find them in cases?

I've collected about 1/2 dozen extra cases, all 16s for pendant-set, open face movements. One or two I purchased separately simply because I liked them, the rest came with salvage movements that i doubt i can ever get working.

1 hour ago, Daniel123 said:

Hi

Would you have a go yourself? There are a few tutorials on YouTube, I’ve changed a couple of jewels over using peg wood. Obviously it’s better using jeweling tools but extremely expensive to buy. 
 

This is the tutorial I used

 

Mark makes everything look so easy  I must admit if i was certain i could find the proper replacement jewels (which I haven't even tried), i might be interested in investing in the tools and make this a project for next year as my confidence builds.

[Daniel123]

32 minutes ago, Levine98 said:

I've collected about 1/2 dozen extra cases, all 16s for pendant-set, open face movements. One or two I purchased separately simply because I liked them, the rest came with salvage movements that i doubt i can ever get working.

Mark makes everything look so easy  I must admit if i was certain i could find the proper replacement jewels (which I haven't even tried), i might be interested in investing in the tools and make this a project for next year as my confidence builds.

I bought a load of ancient jewels from eBay that probably have been gathering dust for the last hundred years all in good shape though. Then spent the next few days sorting through them, certainly learned patients. I had the old jewel to use for measurements. I would love a jewel press though, next time I’ll get one

[Levine98]

On 4/30/2022 at 2:45 PM, Daniel123 said:

I bought a load of ancient jewels from eBay that probably have been gathering dust for the last hundred years all in good shape though. Then spent the next few days sorting through them, certainly learned patients. I had the old jewel to use for measurements. I would love a jewel press though, next time I’ll get one

I'm looking for same myself since someone on the NAWCC board (I'm a member--also a great source of info) has offered to help with replacing the jewels if I can source the ones I need (all in the main plate--a 4th wheel, an escape wheel and pallet fork). I suspec this is the long pole in the tent.

[Daniel123]

2 hours ago, Levine98 said:

I'm looking for same myself since someone on the NAWCC board (I'm a member--also a great source of info) has offered to help with replacing the jewels if I can source the ones I need (all in the main plate--a 4th wheel, an escape wheel and pallet fork). I suspec this is the long pole in the tent.

There’s a few on eBay, just be careful when you open them up for the first time. The amount of times I’ve been crawling on the floor with my loup looking for small parts that have somehow gone Ping onto the floor

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, Levine98 said:

'm looking for same myself since someone on the NAWCC board (I'm a member

it's good that you're a member because that means you can get one of the past bulletins? 

I have a link you do have to be logged in as a member to get to the appropriate page. Specifically you're looking for NAWCC Bulletin No. 180: February 1976. then when you get there you want to download the PDF titled  56 – Grinding of Tapered and Beveled Hole-Jewels by Fred Powell.

the problem so many times with burnished in jewels are there just really hard to find. even if you have an assortment finding the right one can be difficult at times. The article shows how to modify modern jewels by rounding the outer shape so now it's equivalent to burnished in jewel and it can be burnished in.

https://www.nawcc.org/publications/watch-clock-bulletins/watch-clock-bulletins-past-issues/

 

[Levine98]

4 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

it's good that you're a member because that means you can get one of the past bulletins? 

I have a link you do have to be logged in as a member to get to the appropriate page. Specifically you're looking for NAWCC Bulletin No. 180: February 1976. then when you get there you want to download the PDF titled  56 – Grinding of Tapered and Beveled Hole-Jewels by Fred Powell.

the problem so many times with burnished in jewels are there just really hard to find. even if you have an assortment finding the right one can be difficult at times. The article shows how to modify modern jewels by rounding the outer shape so now it's equivalent to burnished in jewel and it can be burnished in.

https://www.nawcc.org/publications/watch-clock-bulletins/watch-clock-bulletins-past-issues/

 

Thanks, the NAWCC is such a great resource--I pulled the article just to get a sense of what is involved. Unfortunately, at this stage of my journey, grinding jewels is way beyond my skill set and equipment inventory.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Levine98