Unusual arbor-barrel arrangement?

[APvRV]

This Kienzle Markant has a mainspring arbor that is part of the barrel lid (top of pic). The challenge is to wind the spring around the arbor, then insert it into the barrel. Has anyone dealt with this before, and is there a tool to do it? I cannot see how a "standard" mainspring winder will handle this...

[Neverenoughwatches]

18 minutes ago, APvRV said:

This Kienzle Markant has a mainspring arbor that is part of the barrel lid (top of pic). The challenge is to wind the spring around the arbor, then insert it into the barrel. Has anyone dealt with this before, and is there a tool to do it? I cannot see how a "standard" mainspring winder will handle this...

Yup. They're a bloody pain in the arse

18 minutes ago, APvRV said:

This Kienzle Markant has a mainspring arbor that is part of the barrel lid (top of pic). The challenge is to wind the spring around the arbor, then insert it into the barrel. Has anyone dealt with this before, and is there a tool to do it? I cannot see how a "standard" mainspring winder will handle this...

That isn't the arbor mate, it's the click. The arbor is free floating. You can still use a mainspring  winder to get the spring in and out of the barrel. There should be a loose lid with a slot in it to go on first then feed the click onto that and Into barrel and onto the spring.  They are a bit fiddly. I can send you a photo later, I have one striped down at home.

9 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

The challenge is to wind the spring around the arbor, then insert it into the barrel. Has anyone dealt with this before, and is

No mate the spring always goes into the barrel first. Bless you have just stated the impossible  here lol.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches
Wasn't funny enough

[oldhippy]

Open the mainspring end with a pair of round nosed pliers just a little at a time. You can press in the arbor at an angle which will force the end of the mainspring to open even more and it should hook on. That is what I used to do. Others might have different ways. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, APvRV said:

This Kienzle Markant has a mainspring arbor that is part of the barrel lid (top of pic). The challenge is to wind the spring around the arbor, then insert it into the barrel. Has anyone dealt with this before, and is there a tool to do it? I cannot see how a "standard" mainspring winder will handle this...

I would go with Old Hippy on this Ap. The first coil is always a bit tight I find and you do have to come in with the hook on a bit of an angle to get it started along with some manipulation of that first coil. Quite fiddly as you are working under the lid a little bit. Do you have the lid that goes inbetween ? Don't mind me earlier I'm having a silly day, which tbh is most days. I think there's something  in the water where I live cause we are all a bit barmy in my area

Edited April 27, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[mikepilk]

As mentioned, they're a real pain. You have to get the first coil just the right size. 

I've only come across it on pocket watches.

I have an Elgin Veritas where the arbor is part of the barrel, so you can't tilt it. Took lots of fiddling to get it to work.

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, mikepilk said:

As mentioned, they're a real pain. You have to get the first coil just the right size. 

I've only come across it on pocket watches.

I have an Elgin Veritas where the arbor is part of the barrel, so you can't tilt it. Took lots of fiddling to get it to work.

A few Swiss are like this with the click piggybacking the barrel. With a seperate  floating arbor 

[APvRV]

Thanks everyone for the input...I guess "fiddling" is the only option!!

[nevenbekriev]

There is nothing strange and hard to do here. The main problem is that the spring is changed with new one, and it is not made for such large diameter of the arbour.

First of all, You must enlarge the diam. of the internal coil in order to get easy on the arbour, this easier to be done outside the barel. Then, the way to assemble the whole thing is to rotate the wheel with the arbour in direction oposite to the winding of spring when pressing it towards the barrel.

May I ask if the original spring is broken? If not, why replacing? Of course, if (as I suspect) this is no jewels pin lever watch with conical balace staff pivots, changing the spring will not help in any way.

Sorry, for some reason I see this thread as a new one, now realize it is old one.

[JohnR725]

29 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

Sorry, for some reason I see this thread as a new one, now realize it is old one

The reason you're seeing this as a new conversation is it is new for you.

For instance when I come to the message board I click on the unread content. Go down the list and see what's interesting. But as you're relatively new here everything that you've never looked that will be considered unread new content even if it's vintage. I circled something in the image below may be clicking on that will help so you only see the newest stuff.

Occasionally I run in the something like this where I'll see something of interest click on it and end up in the middle of a very long discussion. Because of someone replies to a multipage discussion and there at the end the message board will not take me to the end but it will take me to wherever I last was reading on that multipage discussion. So yes odd quirks the message board.

 

Then discussions like this are interesting and basically a waste of time to purchase a paid in because look at the original posting person? Only did six messages and was last here in 2022. Often times with newbies variety reasons they don't get whatever they want and they don't stay very long. That means trying to help newbies out can be a waste of time if they're not going to stay.

 

 

 

 

 

[RichardHarris123]

15 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

The reason you're seeing this as a new conversation is it is new for you.

For instance when I come to the message board I click on the unread content. Go down the list and see what's interesting. But as you're relatively new here everything that you've never looked that will be considered unread new content even if it's vintage. I circled something in the image below may be clicking on that will help so you only see the newest stuff.

Occasionally I run in the something like this where I'll see something of interest click on it and end up in the middle of a very long discussion. Because of someone replies to a multipage discussion and there at the end the message board will not take me to the end but it will take me to wherever I last was reading on that multipage discussion. So yes odd quirks the message board.

 

Then discussions like this are interesting and basically a waste of time to purchase a paid in because look at the original posting person? Only did six messages and was last here in 2022. Often times with newbies variety reasons they don't get whatever they want and they don't stay very long. That means trying to help newbies out can be a waste of time if they're not going to stay.

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting point and correct but all we can do, is try to help and hope that they will learn and stay on the site to help others in the future. I'm still an amateur and always will be, but thanks to this site, I've learnt enough to of at least help newbies from time to time. Thanks to all, my knowledge is still lacking but I started not knowing what a crown was , let alone a stem etc. Being of help is good enough for me.