Elgin pocket watch with rust, damaged balance pivot, broken balance jewel, broken cannon pinion, and broken main spring.

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 hours ago, Luismartinezdecuba said:

Thanks for your support guys, I will examine the hairspring under the today evening when I come home from work, and post some pictures again to see if there is any improvement. If not, I will take a step forward on the derusting process, and use some more aggressive stuff jjj. In the worst case scenario I will need to find a balance complete. I already have the numbers for all the parts, including balance complete, thanks to grsnovi who searched them all for me. Thanks friends.

I feel an experiment coming on. Involving a rust laden hairspring and a few selected chemicals  

[Luismartinezdecuba]

19 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I feel an experiment coming on. Involving a rust laden hairspring and a few selected chemicals  

Yay! Let's see how it turns out

[Neverenoughwatches]

24 minutes ago, Luismartinezdecuba said:

Yay! Let's see how it turns out

Haha. Whats the worst that can happen, you need a new hairspring,  I think you might already be there lol.

[Daniel123]

On 4/26/2022 at 7:49 PM, Luismartinezdecuba said:

Hi JohnR725,

Yes, it sounds like a plan. I will take the balance staff out, measure the healthy pivot and try to order the staff and balance jewel based on the pivot diameter. I don't have a micrometer, but I know a couple people who probably have one. Hopefully with the parts number and pivot diameter I can find  both parts (staff and jewel) on daveswatchparts or ebay. I will also try to clean the hairspring once I get it out of the balance.

This is the biggest challenge so far for me, but I am up for it!!

Thanks a lot again to all of you guys who have taken from your precious time to teach a neophyte like me.

I'll keep you posted every time I reach a milestone on this timepiece.

How’s the balance staff project going? 

[Luismartinezdecuba]

2 hours ago, Daniel123 said:

How’s the balance staff project going? 

Hi Daniel 123, I still have the hairspring taking a bath in naptha. It's been close to 48 hours. I already have all the parts numbers and I have them located at different places like cas-ker, ebay, etc, but I haven't bought anything yet waiting to see if I can get the hairspring clean. If so, I will just buy the staff and the hole jewel (which is a cheaper option). If the hairspring breaks or is too deteriorated, I'll have to buy a balance complete which I also have located(more expensive option jjj).

Thanks for asking. I'll keep you all posted here.

[Daniel123]

2 minutes ago, Luismartinezdecuba said:

Hi Daniel 123, I still have the hairspring taking a bath in naptha. It's been close to 48 hours. I already have all the parts numbers and I have them located at different places like cas-ker, ebay, etc, but I haven't bought anything yet waiting to see if I can get the hairspring clean. If so, I will just buy the staff and the hole jewel (which is a cheaper option). If the hairspring breaks or is too deteriorated, I'll have to buy a balance complete which I also have located(more expensive option jjj).

Thanks for asking. I'll keep you all posted here.

Well done on finding a complete balance

[Luismartinezdecuba]

Hi, this a short update about the hairspring experiment.

I had the hairspring in naptha for more than 48hs. It did not remove the rust. Then, I placed it in coca-cola for about 12hs and it improved a little bit. Finally, I placed it in lemon juice for a couple hours and it began breaking the rust out of the spring. Now I have it in 99% isopropyl alcohol.

Another question (sorry to bother you so much)

Should the balance pivots be a little bit thinner than the hole jewel (ex. staff pivots .10 & hole jewel .11)? Or, should balance pivots be same as hole jewel (pivots .10 & hole jewel .10)?

What would happen if the balance pivots are .1 thinner than hole jewel?

Thank you guys.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Luismartinezdecuba

[watchweasol]

Lookinhg a whole lot better, the acid in the lemon juice is cutting the rust,  slice the lenon and add to a Gin an tonic, sit back and rest a spell.

[Nucejoe]

Lemon juice have done much better than I thought. Did you say you don't have an ultrasonic machine. 

I wonder if lemon juice in ultrasonic would fully derust the spring.

I have lost hairsprings in vinegar in ultrasonic though. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

54 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Lookinhg a whole lot better, the acid in the lemon juice is cutting the rust,  slice the lenon and add to a Gin an tonic, sit back and rest a spell.

Haha good one ww

[Luismartinezdecuba]

I don't have an ultrasonic machine yet, but I am planning to buy one. There are too many things I would like to buy, but everything in relation to watch repairs is expensive jjj.

What do you think about the following?

Should the balance pivots be a little bit thinner than the hole jewel (ex. staff pivots .10 & hole jewel .11)? Or, should balance pivots be same as hole jewel (pivots .10 & hole jewel .10)?

What would happen if the balance pivots are .1 thinner than hole jewel?

Edited April 30, 2022 by Luismartinezdecuba

[Neverenoughwatches]

12 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

have lost hairsprings in vinegar in ultrasonic though. 

The acetic acid in vinegar is more aggressive  than citric acid. I'm not keen on the high water content in vinegar though. I thought I'd do a quick scale of what to use so far to  remove rust for future ref, and would love any additions  or feedback on  them. Some things I have tried and some I have not . But I will definitely be experimenting when a situation arises.. 

No 1. safest option naptha and any alcohol based product. Generally little effect.

No 2. Lemon juice, citric acid. Some reasonable effects.

No 3. Vinegar, 5 -10 % acetic acid 90 % water. Good rust removing ability, be aware high water content.

No 4. Coca Cola . Contains very small amounts of phosphoric acid, high water content and sugar Also good rust removing ability. 

Four easily obtainable household items. Each can have heat (naptha and solvent with caution), ultrasonic, mechanical  and prolonged soaking to increase their rust removing potential. Lastly specific manufactured products. Evapo  rust, wd40 rust remover. I have only tried Rustins, this stuff is lethal and will literally dissolve  small watchparts  overnight.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[Luismartinezdecuba]

Hi friends, I could finally finished the elgin pocket watch. It took me many many days between sourcing the parts and working on the watch jjj. But it's finally done. I put a video together wrapping up the process. Here I'm posting the video and link. 

Thank you so much to every single one of you who tolerated me along the way. Without your advices I wouldn't have done it.