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Moved thread - not the first time


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Yesterday I made a post asking about barrel wall lubrication for Seiko 6106.
My post has been moved to another thread to page 13. It’s nice and tidy but the subject is gone and anyone looking for the same as me will of course not find it. Neither will many people look at an old thread from 2014 so I believe moving my post will remain unanswered even though this is a straight forward question.
How many people would have worked on Seikos and experienced similar problem? Many. Yet nobody will get to see my question and I will not get an answer.
Is it really such a big problem to have a thread that is not a continuation of an 8 year old thread?

Forums are for people to find answers to their questions, moving threads to old threads with a generic subject does not help.
My question could have been answered if somebody didn’t move it where it’s never going to be seen.
Is the answer to my question somewhere amongst the 13 pages of that thread it has been moved to?
I don’t know, the subject is generic and I don’t have an hour to read through all the pages hoping someone had the same issue with Seiko 6106.
Who cares whether the forum is tidy? What’s the point if it’s not serving its purpose?

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54 minutes ago, PeterS said:

Neither will many people look at an old thread from 2014 so I believe moving my post will remain unanswered even though this is a straight forward question.

it is not so. These are pinned topics which show always on top of the section, and are the ones with most answers and views.

 

54 minutes ago, PeterS said:

 

How many people would have worked on Seikos and experienced similar problem? Many. Yet nobody will get to see my question and I will not get an answer.

You are assuming wrong. People still see and answer questions, the only thing is that answers will be added exactly where it belongs. Incidentally, lubrication is often a controversial subject, so the more spread different answer are over different places, the more confusion. In other words, dispersion of knowledge. People could read only one topic and believe that there is only one answer, but the same identical questions may have got a different, and potentially better answer in another topic, now yes that one could be hidded.. That's the reason why it's an asset to have only one same topic for the most common asked questions. You can read it, and most likely find the answer, it can be brilliant, or a made from a collective set, but is there.

 

54 minutes ago, PeterS said:

Is it really such a big problem to have a thread that is not a continuation of an 8 year old thread?

I have explained why above. And topic about watchmaking is never 'old', because the good answer may date to one hundred years ago, in this nothing has really changes in the last 8 years about mainspring lubrication.

So, while I respect and hear your opinion, I hope you can now better understand the reason why topics are merged, and appreciate the work that is behind maintaining our friendly forum.

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Hello guys,

It’s here:

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/20268-mainspring-lubrication-manual-and-automatic/page/13/

I can imagine the same question has been asked before and someone answered it but no matter what I google or look for on this forum I can’t find an answer.
Probably due to the fact that there is no thread with a specific subject that it would lead me into.

I don’t believe there is anything controversial about lubricating 6106 barrel wall. I’m using 8213 breaking grease and the mainspring is slipping/sliding. I tried small amounts, I tried spreading it all over the wall but no matter how much I wind it I get low amplitude and it only takes around 3 turns to unwind it.
Whether to use 9020 instead of 9010 etc. may be controversial but asking for help what grease to use in this barrel so it’s not slipping? It either works or it doesn’t. I just need to know which grease I should be using. Surely there is someone who successfully lubricated 6106 barrel.

I see your point trying to keep this forum tidy but it gets tiring trying to read through different threads on different forums hoping that somewhere there may be the answer.
There is a time to read such threads for leisure and knowledge but when you need an answer so you can move on you don’t generally have the time to read pages and pages not knowing whether the answer is there.

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Consider this in the spirit it is intended:

@jdm, this is a very poor way to handle this. It causes problems, frustration, confusion, and going forward, causes me to call you out on it every time. There are so many better ways to handle this. Pick one. If you need help, ask. I've offered proactively, and I'm sure others would rise to the call just the same. I'm not the only one who feels this way, I just know it's such a poorly considered... it's not even a policy (calling it what it is might come off a bit harsh)... that I'm willing to call you out on it. Consider it constructive criticism and an offer to assist in a limited capacity.

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That is why it has been moved as you can see there have been many after the same answer with many members giving there answers. It is why we move posts so it doesn't clutter up the forum. 

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3 hours ago, PeterS said:

There is a time to read such threads for leisure and knowledge but when you need an answer so you can move on you don’t generally have the time to read pages and pages not knowing whether the answer is there.

Your statement pretty much translates to:
Since I don't have or do not want to invents in time to read on the subject, I would like to be receive individual answers on my questions, even if these have been given already in a dedicate and visible place.
And the corollary of that is:
If others that have already spend time in providing detailed, brilliant answers, they will have to do that for me again, as it's their time not mine.

So, whilst this may be convenient for the individual, it produces exactly the dispersion and repetition that we're trying to avoid, making the forum a less valuable and organized resource for everyone else, including the many that are instead willing to search and read.

Again, my hope is that you and any other member that is criticizing can start appreciating the logic and effort that is behind it.

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The logic is completely understood and appreciated. It's the methodology that is problematic. While not taking the time to search, etc. is implicitly causing the more senior users to answer the same questions repeatedly, the means by which you address this issue causes those offending users to [i]rightly[/i], if not correctly, assume that the question has not been asked or answered. Ultimately, it is you, @jdm, are the one causing people to have to invest far more time than is necessary by treating this duplicative content in the manner you are. This is a self-inflicted wound, and it's one that is so very easily cured.

 

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2 hours ago, jdm said:

If others that have already spend time in providing detailed, brilliant answers, they will have to do that for me again, as it's their time not mine.

Really? What an utter garbage. Someone asks a question and you translate it your way insulting people on this forum?
Do you really think I didn’t Google it? Do you think I didn’t watch many YouTube videos? Do you think I wasn’t looking at threads on all different forums? It took me three days before I decided I needed to post the question because I couldn’t find the answer andI needed help and I have to ask. But instead I get insulted by you.
I’m not the first one either. I’ve been a member of this forum and Mark's patron for several years now and I’ve seen posts before with members getting frustrated with you just like I am right now.

My guess is that you don’t know the answer to my question either. You sent me to a generic thread that does not mention 6106 on any of the 13 pages.
You’re telling me I’m wasting people’s time asking a question that was already asked before but where is it? If I could see it I wouldn’t be here asking the question.
This is a forum, people ask questions and some questions will be repeated. This is where you come? Insulting them instead of helping because someone already answered the question and they couldn’t find it?

If you knew the answer and told me what I needed to do it would take you considerably less time than insulting and lecturing me over several posts.

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@oldhippyCompletely understood. I share that love of this forum and watch/clock making. Please understand that is the position I'm coming from here. But to accuse a user of being lazy when it's a practice born of laziness that has created a situation all but necessitating the behavior being called lazy is hypocritical at best. The natural result is the above reply (submitted while I was creating this one) and the sentiment it conveys. You, @jdm, @oldhippy, or whichever other moderator is responsible for those actions, that is creating this problem. Be intellectually honest enough to recognize when your paradigm fails to fully address a problem, and adjust. Anyone can cling to their guns and claim they're right. A "man" (somewhat outdated terminology, but it hasn't been replaced that I'm aware of) will admit when they come up short, and adjust course. It's not even a difficult adjustment as the problem has been solved a million times over, and you'll have no shortage of volunteers for generating the content required to execute any one of them. 

Also, just in case there is any confusion on the matter, I am absolutely not campaigning to be a moderator or anything. I recognize it's a thankless time commitment. That said, I will absolutely offer to help in a limited capacity to resolve this particular issue, then get back out of the kitchen and let you guys do your thing with better tools going forward. I'm not after whatever "power" or something that one might think comes with being a forum moderator, but I am willing to put some time into making things better.

Edited by spectre6000
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8 minutes ago, Jack75 said:

I am totally confuses since JDM is not listed as a moderator. He resigned some years ago.

Moderators are:

Mark, Geo, clockboy, oldhippy, diveboy

 

It’s not relevant who moved the post. It’s the assumptions he makes that are totally wrong. I find it rude and insulting.

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Came up recently in the above thread that JDM was responsible for the junk drawer thread practices despite not being listed as a moderator. He responded that he'd prefer to be mentioned by name on the subject, so I'm respecting his wishes accordingly.

Additionally, I've exchanged friendly PMs with JDM on that exact subject in the recent past related to a completely different collection of wholly unrelated threads; AndyHull's intro thread, and the 404 Club thread. The 404 Club idea absolutely originated with Andy, and he gets full credit for that, but his personal adventures, while frequently 404 flavored, are not exclusively 404. Additionally, in true junk drawer fashion, the 404 Club game would be completely lost when it was spilled out on the 20th page of Andy's thread about his own watchmaking exploits. Similarly, Andy's exploits would be completely lost in the 404 noise. Fortunately, jdm was dissuaded from junk drawering the two threads, but he was not convinced to abandon the practice at the time.

I sincerely hope, in light of this and other similar events, a compelling enough case can be made for jdm and any other mods who wish to be directly addressed on the subject to abandon the practice, allow/enable/enact a suitable replacement within the normative bounds of the greater internet and make WRT a better, more informative, and more inclusive place where anyone can come to learn all of the ins and outs of watch/clockmaking in an encouraging and welcoming environment.

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I don't suppose it be possible when you're moving discussions that the pointer to the new discussion can at least take you to the actual question and not the first page of the discussion?

 

 

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1 hour ago, PeterS said:

Really? What an utter garbage. Someone asks a question and you translate it your way insulting people on this forum?
Do you really think I didn’t Google it? Do you think I didn’t watch many YouTube videos? Do you think I wasn’t looking at threads on all different forums? It took me three days before I decided I needed to post the question because I couldn’t find the answer andI needed help and I have to ask. But instead I get insulted by you.
I’m not the first one either. I’ve been a member of this forum and Mark's patron for several years now and I’ve seen posts before with members getting frustrated with you just like I am right now.

My guess is that you don’t know the answer to my question either. You sent me to a generic thread that does not mention 6106 on any of the 13 pages.
You’re telling me I’m wasting people’s time asking a question that was already asked before but where is it? If I could see it I wouldn’t be here asking the question.
This is a forum, people ask questions and some questions will be repeated. This is where you come? Insulting them instead of helping because someone already answered the question and they couldn’t find it?

If you knew the answer and told me what I needed to do it would take you considerably less time than insulting and lecturing me over several posts.

Calm down mate. There is a lot more s.h.i.t. happening in the world than this to get upset about. Go have cuppa and chill before you burst a blood  vessel in your finger. 

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5 hours ago, PeterS said:

Hello guys,

It’s here:

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/20268-mainspring-lubrication-manual-and-automatic/page/13/

I can imagine the same question has been asked before and someone answered it but no matter what I google or look for on this forum I can’t find an answer.
Probably due to the fact that there is no thread with a specific subject that it would lead me into.

I don’t believe there is anything controversial about lubricating 6106 barrel wall. I’m using 8213 breaking grease and the mainspring is slipping/sliding. I tried small amounts, I tried spreading it all over the wall but no matter how much I wind it I get low amplitude and it only takes around 3 turns to unwind it.
Whether to use 9020 instead of 9010 etc. may be controversial but asking for help what grease to use in this barrel so it’s not slipping? It either works or it doesn’t. I just need to know which grease I should be using. Surely there is someone who successfully lubricated 6106 barrel.

I see your point trying to keep this forum tidy but it gets tiring trying to read through different threads on different forums hoping that somewhere there may be the answer.
There is a time to read such threads for leisure and knowledge but when you need an answer so you can move on you don’t generally have the time to read pages and pages not knowing whether the answer is there.

Hello PeterS

I have had success with Moebius 8217 on the barrel wall of a 6138B movement, that use the same base mechanism as the 6106a. All seems to be good with power reserve of about 46 hours (that I find very good for a 45 year watch and mainspring…)

Hope it helps!

Mircea

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1 hour ago, spectre6000 said:

@oldhippyCompletely understood. I share that love of this forum and watch/clock making. Please understand that is the position I'm coming from here. But to accuse a user of being lazy when it's a practice born of laziness that has created a situation all but necessitating the behavior being called lazy is hypocritical at best. The natural result is the above reply (submitted while I was creating this one) and the sentiment it conveys. You, @jdm, @oldhippy, or whichever other moderator is responsible for those actions, that is creating this problem. Be intellectually honest enough to recognize when your paradigm fails to fully address a problem, and adjust. Anyone can cling to their guns and claim they're right. A "man" (somewhat outdated terminology, but it hasn't been replaced that I'm aware of) will admit when they come up short, and adjust course. It's not even a difficult adjustment as the problem has been solved a million times over, and you'll have no shortage of volunteers for generating the content required to execute any one of them. 

Also, just in case there is any confusion on the matter, I am absolutely not campaigning to be a moderator or anything. I recognize it's a thankless time commitment. That said, I will absolutely offer to help in a limited capacity to resolve this particular issue, then get back out of the kitchen and let you guys do your thing with better tools going forward. I'm not after whatever "power" or something that one might think comes with being a forum moderator, but I am willing to put some time into making things better.

I don't think anyone can put a fairer answer or offer to the problem than that

27 minutes ago, Mircea said:

Hello PeterS

I have had success with Moebius 8217 on the barrel wall of a 6138B movement, that use the same base mechanism as the 6106a. All seems to be good with power reserve of about 46 hours (that I find very good for a 45 year watch and mainspring…)

Hope it helps!

Mircea

👍 Well stepped in there, a little bit late through no fault of your own. But I hope it was appreciated all the same. My word such fuss. I know we all get peed off at times and need to rant about things and people but staying calm gets the point across so much better, has better responses and ultimately a better resolution. Nobody likes to be insulted or patronised because that instantly rears heckles that's a natural fight response. I lose my rag very easily and often have to step outside myself to see how I'm behaving and put that behavior in  check , for one I may have misunderstood or assumed something that was not fully intended in the way I perceived  it. Then it's time go away calm down have a think come back and start again, wave a little white flag and carry on and sort the problem in an adult civil manner.  Please 🙂

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24 minutes ago, Mircea said:

Hello PeterS

I have had success with Moebius 8217 on the barrel wall of a 6138B movement, that use the same base mechanism as the 6106a. All seems to be good with power reserve of about 46 hours (that I find very good for a 45 year watch and mainspring…)

Hope it helps!

Mircea

It does indeed help, I'll give the 8217 a go instead of the 8213.
Thank you very much for letting me know.

Cheers,

Peter

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Having been a victim of this myself on a few occasions and coincidentally for asking the same type of question about braking grease, I thought I had put it in the correct section (Lubrication) only to find it was moved to the more appropriate barrel lubrication section which I had failed to realise it even existed.

I understand why it's done but mixing a new question up with hundreds or even thousands of similar questions does make things a little confusing, not knowing if a reply is about your question or one 20 posts above.

Over the years I have been on loads of forums covering many different hobbies I have had over the years and this is the first one were moving and mixing threads of similar content is done so voraciously, so it's taking me time to get to grips with the way things are done over here, which hopefully I will eventually.

One annoying niggle, when the post is moved any answers that had been posted are not also moved, maybe because the mod also does not know which post the reply was for but it does make some odd reading with a answers to a question no longer there.

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32 minutes ago, Mircea said:

I have had success with Moebius 8217 on the barrel wall of a 6138B movement, that use the same base mechanism as the 6106a. All seems to be good with power reserve of about 46 hours (that I find very good for a 45 year watch and mainspring…)

As you're answering the question in this discussion did you see the original redirected link somewhere else on the message board? Then if you did see the redirect link did you follow all the way to the original question and answer it there?

Then for the mainspring is that her original Seiko mainspring or an aftermarket mainspring?

 

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19 minutes ago, Paul80 said:

Having been a victim of this myself on a few occasions and coincidentally for asking the same type of question about braking grease, I thought I had put it in the correct section (Lubrication) only to find it was moved to the more appropriate barrel lubrication section which I had failed to realise it even existed.

I understand why it's done but mixing a new question up with hundreds or even thousands of similar questions does make things a little confusing, not knowing if a reply is about your question or one 20 posts above.

Over the years I have been on loads of forums covering many different hobbies I have had over the years and this is the first one were moving and mixing threads of similar content is done so voraciously, so it's taking me time to get to grips with the way things are done over here, which hopefully I will eventually.

One annoying niggle, when the post is moved any answers that had been posted are not also moved, maybe because the mod also does not know which post the reply was for but it does make some odd reading with a answers to a question no longer there.

There you go nobody is perfect or a mind reader. Except Yuri Geller apparently. Let's see if he likes watches shall we.🤦‍♂️

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A week ago or so I asked a question about 6106 date corrector.
I got an answer very quickly from aac58 and from watchweasol who also kindly enclosed documents. Perfect.
Now when you type in Google ‘Seiko 6106 date corrector’ the thread can be found on the first page. Anyone Googling it will find it and it will take them to this forum.

Mircea answered my question about the breaking grease but because the full question with all the details I wrote about it is in a different thread where it’s been moved and in the process of it being moved the subject heading was not retained you can Google it as much as you like and you won’t be able to find the answer.
Short threads, with proper subjects make sense because if it wasn’t moved and Mircea replied to ‘Seiko 6106 barrel – breaking grease’, anyone who’d have the same issue would find it very quickly and the question would not have to be repeated over and over which frustrates some people here and I understand it. However, this could be avoided if posts were not getting moved. Perhaps the subjects could be altered slightly by the moderators so the posts can be easily found because not everyone thinks of writing good subjects that would make posts easy to find. I don’t think people would object too much to the subjects being moderated when they are getting the answers to their questions and subsequently others are finding the answers too without the need to post questions that have been asked before.

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6 minutes ago, PeterS said:

A week ago or so I asked a question about 6106 date corrector.
I got an answer very quickly from aac58 and from watchweasol who also kindly enclosed documents. Perfect.
Now when you type in Google ‘Seiko 6106 date corrector’ the thread can be found on the first page. Anyone Googling it will find it and it will take them to this forum.

Mircea answered my question about the breaking grease but because the full question with all the details I wrote about it is in a different thread where it’s been moved and in the process of it being moved the subject heading was not retained you can Google it as much as you like and you won’t be able to find the answer.
Short threads, with proper subjects make sense because if it wasn’t moved and Mircea replied to ‘Seiko 6106 barrel – breaking grease’, anyone who’d have the same issue would find it very quickly and the question would not have to be repeated over and over which frustrates some people here and I understand it. However, this could be avoided if posts were not getting moved. Perhaps the subjects could be altered slightly by the moderators so the posts can be easily found because not everyone thinks of writing good subjects that would make posts easy to find. I don’t think people would object too much to the subjects being moderated when they are getting the answers to their questions and subsequently others are finding the answers too without the need to post questions that have been asked before.

I'm sure it can be sorted out Peter, with some help and ideas put forward and with a little time needed to iron it out. They are volunteers and it is their spare time and everyone has lives as well. 

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3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

As you're answering the question in this discussion did you see the original redirected link somewhere else on the message board? Then if you did see the redirect link did you follow all the way to the original question and answer it there?

Then for the mainspring is that her original Seiko mainspring or an aftermarket mainspring?

 

Hello again

I am really sorry that I answered the original question here, as I only felt that there is a need for an answer to the original question and that I could help with it. At 50 years of age, I am a beginner in watchmaking and also in posting on a forum. I only wanted to help and I answered where I found the question…

For the second question, I assume it is the original mainspring, as the entire watch seemed in an very good condition except in pieces… I only have it from May 2020, its known history is posted in achievements part of the forum under my name. I wear it almost every day now…

I am gonna try and find the redirect and answer there also, maybe somebody in the future will have some use of it. I did find many answers to my own questions in the pinned posts, hence the reason that I didn’t post more questions before. Can the search be improved? No doubt about that… Are the posts useful? Oh yes, and by a lot! Therefore I appreciate a lot the work of the members and of the moderators, they try to put them together and help also, and all without any other satisfaction. My hat and a bow to you! 
However, if the forum can be improved, why not try? Everybody could be happier, maybe, or maybe it will not work, but only by trying one can find out.

As usual, that is my personal opinion.

Have a nice evening!

 

3 hours ago, PeterS said:

A week ago or so I asked a question about 6106 date corrector.
I got an answer very quickly from aac58 and from watchweasol who also kindly enclosed documents. Perfect.
Now when you type in Google ‘Seiko 6106 date corrector’ the thread can be found on the first page. Anyone Googling it will find it and it will take them to this forum.

Mircea answered my question about the breaking grease but because the full question with all the details I wrote about it is in a different thread where it’s been moved and in the process of it being moved the subject heading was not retained you can Google it as much as you like and you won’t be able to find the answer.
Short threads, with proper subjects make sense because if it wasn’t moved and Mircea replied to ‘Seiko 6106 barrel – breaking grease’, anyone who’d have the same issue would find it very quickly and the question would not have to be repeated over and over which frustrates some people here and I understand it. However, this could be avoided if posts were not getting moved. Perhaps the subjects could be altered slightly by the moderators so the posts can be easily found because not everyone thinks of writing good subjects that would make posts easy to find. I don’t think people would object too much to the subjects being moderated when they are getting the answers to their questions and subsequently others are finding the answers too without the need to post questions that have been asked before.

Glad I could be of help!

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