Seitz Jewelling Press; Micrometer Dial Stuck

[Klassiker]

Hello folks,

I just bought a used Seitz jewelling set. All in all I'm very happy with it. The condition is good and it is almost complete, but there is a problem with the micrometer adjustment. It is stuck tight and will not turn under extreme finger pressure (ow!)

Not having owned one before, is there a trick that I'm missing? I've removed the locking screw, and added oil, but no change. Before I set to with the adjustable (Engländer in German!), is this a common problem, and what is the likely cause?

[oldhippy]

You should be able to adjust it with ease. AS you have removed the screw the only thing that I can think of it must be rusted in. Any signs of rust? I hate these stuff but have you tried W D 40. 

[watchweasol]

Hi you migh find ths useful. this guy has just refurbished his press.

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrIDKSFXVhiWOgAsRJ3Bwx.;_ylu=Y29sbwMEcG9zAzEEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1649987078/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2f2makers.weebly.com%2fseitz-jeweling-tool.html/RK=2/RS=Dsvj5bB2msZavM_B6iA2rBS8Ja0-

[Klassiker]

28 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Any signs of rust?

None that I can see, but depending on the metal pairing there might be some galvanic corrosion on the thread. Good to know that I'm not missing the obvious.

11 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

this guy has just refurbished his press

I found that report yesterday, and it is the best description of the tool I have dug up so far. Better even than the official instructions. He had a problem with the two marker posts sticking, but not the screw adjustment itself, so not much help I'm afraid.

I'm not in any hurry. No doubt someone else has solved this problem before.

[watchweasol]

No Worries  a bit of a bummer all the same.       cheers

[Nibbler]

Got curious and took mine apart. Here is a picture for whatever its worth. Have you tried the blue wrench?

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Nibbler

[Klassiker]

5 hours ago, Nibbler said:

Have you tried the blue wrench?

Sorry, "blue wrench", not with you? I tried putting a soldering iron inside. Didn't help.

[Nibbler]

Blue wrench = torch. If all else fails you could try carefully heating up the main casting over the threads and then attempt to unscrew the insert. This would be a last resort option.

[praezis]

Supposedly, the zinc/aluminium whatever metal of your press expands its volume by corrosion, what makes the problems. It is different from the older steel body of Nibbler's tool.

Unfortunately I have no better idea than lubricating & force.

Frank

 

[ifibrin]

3 hours ago, praezis said:

Supposedly, the zinc/aluminium whatever metal of your press expands its volume by corrosion, what makes the problems. It is different from the older steel body of Nibbler's tool.

Unfortunately I have no better idea than lubricating & force.

Frank

 

Wouldn’t corrosion in the micrometer stop cause some backlash/movement in precise measurements for jewel depth? You can imagine the micrometer dial/stop having “end-shake” due to a damaged screw thread of the micrometer.

[nickelsilver]

12 minutes ago, ifibrin said:

Wouldn’t corrosion in the micrometer stop cause some backlash/movement in precise measurements for jewel depth? You can imagine the micrometer dial/stop having “end-shake” due to a damaged screw thread of the micrometer.

Supposing he gets it apart, and cleans off the corrosion, yes, there will be metal missing where it once was. But the screw pitch remains 1mm and that pitch makes its own average over the number of threads engaged; if you were to measure and map the screw over its entire range you might see some diversion from one line/0.01mm, but for the short travel it might do to press in or even less adjust a jewel it will still be very accurate. The "push" is always down. Like using a lathe or milling machine with some play in the screws, you always take your cut coming up with the crank in the same direction. I had a bench lathe with screws so worn they had 3/4 turn of lash, and could still do accurate work, just always going the same direction (and over a short distance).

[HectorLooi]

It looks very clean, not likely to be corrosion. Probably dried up 50 year old grease. Try WD40 sprayed into the locking screw hole. Dropping a couple of drops of benzine also helps.

Have you tried pressing down on the 2 spring loaded index pointer pins?

[Klassiker]

4 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Have you tried pressing down on the 2 spring loaded index pointer pins?

They appear to be stuck too, but I expect they will be easy enough to free up, once I get the screw dial out of the way.  I've glued a nut on top and I'll leave some WD-40 to soak in overnight, then try some gingerly applied brute force tomorrow.

Thanks for all the help so far!

[Tony13]

I have the same one without the spindle and accessories.

If you can not get it to work I am willing to part with it as I only needed the spindle to get my set complete.

[Klassiker]

On 4/15/2022 at 8:49 PM, Tony13 said:

I have the same one without the spindle and accessories.

If you can not get it to work I am willing to part with it as I only needed the spindle to get my set complete.

That is very kind of you, and I may take you up on it if things do not go well. So far, I have been able to remove the micrometer screw from the body, but not without some cosmetic damage to the scale (clumsy use of grips) and the paint (hot air gun).

@HectorLooiyou were right on the money with the dried up grease. That's what it looked like to me, anyway. A tiny amount of residue, but  because the thread is such a precise fit, it was enough. Now I am working on the markers (stuck all the way down, with very little to grip on; the 4.0mm collet in the lathe just slips off). Any ideas? Now they are soaking in WD-40 for a week, while visit my parents.

Also not moving freely is the micrometer zeroing screw in the chromed cap. If anyone can explain how the component parts of that work, or has photos of a disassembled one, that would be a great help.

[HectorLooi]

1 hour ago, Klassiker said:

Also not moving freely is the micrometer zeroing screw in the chromed cap. If anyone can explain how the component parts of that work, or has photos of a disassembled one, that would be a great help.

WHOA! You mean there is a zeroing mechanism?

All this while I've been subtracting the numbers to get a reading.

[ifibrin]

7 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

WHOA! You mean there is a zeroing mechanism?

All this while I've been subtracting the numbers to get a reading.

I thought these micrometer type jeweling tools were used to judge relative movements of jewels by hundredths of a mm, not absolute measurements? I’ve never heard of it used in this way.

Edited April 17, 2022 by ifibrin

[Klassiker]

On 4/17/2022 at 9:47 AM, HectorLooi said:

WHOA! You mean there is a zeroing mechanism?

I learned about it here: https://www.geocities.ws/dushang2000/

It appears to be an excellent site at first glance, and I'll be spending some time there this week.

[Klassiker]

Back from my trip today, and the micrometer zeroing screw had responded well to soaking. It came apart with very little effort, and is as simple as can be. Just two parts, the cap and the split screw. The thread is right-handed with a 0.5mm pitch.

The spring-loaded markers are still stuck. Any ideas?

[Klassiker]

The markers are out! Heat, heat and more heat was the answer in the end. After sustained contact with my biggest soldering iron (100W) one of the markers began to creep out of its hole. The other needed a bit of persuasion from the 3-jaw chuck on a power drill, but also came out without a fight in the end.

You can see the discolouration on the parts. It's hardly anything, just a tiny bit of dried up grease or surface rust, but because of the close tolerances, enough to jam up everything. Now to get to work cleaning and polishing!

[Klassiker]

Just an update at the close of this little project of mine. Here's a picture of the final article, warts-and-all. You can see the damage to the scale, and the flaking paint I mentioned earlier, neither of which affect the function of the tool, which I'm delighted with.

Something else I learned which may or may not be useful for others to know. The knurled ring on top of the micrometer screw is a separate part and a simple interference fit above the scale.

Thanks again to everyone who offered advice and assistance.

[ifibrin]

Are you going to oil the spindle and micrometer thread?

On 5/9/2022 at 1:47 AM, Klassiker said:

Just an update at the close of this little project of mine. Here's a picture of the final article, warts-and-all. You can see the damage to the scale, and the flaking paint I mentioned earlier, neither of which affect the function of the tool, which I'm delighted with.

Something else I learned which may or may not be useful for others to know. The knurled ring on top of the micrometer screw is a separate part and a simple interference fit above the scale.

Thanks again to everyone who offered advice and assistance.

 

[Klassiker]

After cleaning, I lightly oiled all moving surfaces, including the spindle and the micrometer thread.

[Malocchio]

Just for information if someone else still has trouble with stuck parts in the Seitz tool. I have the same model as depicted and the spring loaded thingies were stuck in the bottom. Just a couple of seconds in the ultrasonic cleaner and one side popped up and a little later the other one was released. I decided to give it a thorough cleaning and ran the 10 min cycle till the end. Some of the paint flaked off so be careful if you care about the finish. Well it was flaking anyway and it's just a cosmetic flaw.