ETA 2824 clone stem won’t go back

[Chandler]

I decided to build my own ETA 2824 automatic watch recently. I spent time picking out all the parts I wanted, received them and put them all together with minimal trouble.

After sizing the stem and fitting it to the crown I cannot get the stem to go back. After struggling for a minute or two I noticed that even when the stem was removed the movement continued to tick. I did make sure that the watch was in a time setting position before removing the stem. But now I’m one step from completing my watch build and have no idea what to do to fix it.
 

This is the only watch experience I have yet had so I really hope it’s not a difficult fix. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[LittleWatchShop]

Well, there is a thread somewhere on this forum that discusses this I believe.  That movement is a real pain in this regard.  What has happened is the clutch lever jumps off the clutch and there is no way to get it back without removing the dial and calendar ring and moving it back into position.  That is, at least, the only way I have been able to fix it.

For this movement, the guidance is to put the stem in setting position before removing it (as you did). 

The true experts will likely add more insight here.  I will look for the earlier thread.

Edited March 22, 2022 by LittleWatchShop

[LittleWatchShop]

 

[watchweasol]

Hi  LWS is correct displaced keyless work and the only way to resolve it is to remove the dial and hands. once resolved put the watch into the set position before removing the stem this keeps every thin on place.

[jdm]

1 hour ago, watchweasol said:

put the watch into the set position before removing the stem this keeps every thin on place.

The OP mentioned that he did that, so ones wonder, why dislodging has happened? He may be able to know trying again with the dial removed.

[HectorLooi]

The 2824 is a real PITA. Even when in the setting position, if the stem is not aligned properly with the square hole, the sliding pinion can be push in and dislodged.

It requires a very delicate touch when inserting the stem. You have to feel the stem going into the square hole before pushing it all the way.

Mark has a video on YouTube that shows how to reset the keyless works without having to take apart everything, but it can be very tricky.

[Chandler]

Thanks everyone! I think I might just have to bite the bullet with this one and have it professionally fixed. I tried to fix the last movement I had by following the same tutorial provided. The driver set I have is not high quality and I think a repair would be around the same cost and more likely to actually work! The tutorial I followed for removing and replacing the stem told me to set it to the time setting position before removing but didn’t mention anything about aligning the square peg with the square hole. In retrospect it seems obvious enough but again the video only showed it just sliding back in.

I did every other step great but the one step of this process that most resembles a toy made for toddlers is what got me lol!

[jdm]

39 minutes ago, Chandler said:

Thanks everyone! I think I might just have to bite the bullet with this one and have it professionally fixed.

No, don't give up, you are 99% there and done well. Beside, professionals are not interested in working on Chinese watches.

 

39 minutes ago, Chandler said:

The driver set I have is not high quality

Some people confuses high quality with high price, that is not the case for drivers, as mentioned so many times in the dedicated topic Cousins sells top quality drivers for gbp 2.50 a piece, one needs maybe 4 to do almost all work.

 

39 minutes ago, Chandler said:

but didn’t mention anything about aligning the square peg with the square hole.

No need to focus on aligning, just turn fhe crown a bit while pulling stems out or in. It helps with all and any movement. With a a bit of practice it will become 2nd nature for you too.

Many beginners make the mistake of taking watch repair or even just assembly as if it was programming, assembly robots, or the like of contemporary Makers. They expect to have full guides, diagrams, and perfect kits. It is not so, it's something directly related to developing dexterity and following basic common sense. Videos do help help, but sometime books do even more, and there is no replacement for the practice gained with the many hours spent on the bench. Inevitably some of these will be of frustration, that happens to everyone. In that case, just leave and take it again another day. And if you will need to spend some more money need to accept that as well, unfortunately that is the nature of horology work.

 

[watchweasol]

Hi Chandler   jdm is absoloutly correct in what he says. Everything is not laid out for you and even if it was it still takes a degree of dexterity and a lot of comon sense, not to mention patience. As to the tools the best tools in the hands of an incompetent worker are just scrap. So taking in all thet jdm has said step back a bit and gather your thoughts and go again slowley and steaily and logicaly and you will suceed 

1612608791_ToolsfortheHobbyist (2) (1).pdf

[watchweasol]

Hi  a read through the attached document might help you get things in prospective, and the tool list food for thought should you wish the delve a bit deeper into the Horologic world,  remember we are here to help       all the best and dont give up.

TZIllustratedGlossary.pdf

[Klassiker]

Could not agree more with what watchweasol and jdm said above, and considering that you already demonstrated all the skills required to fix this problem by assembling the watch in the first place, it would be a shame to give up now.

[HectorLooi]

A dislodged sliding pinion from an ETA2836 was what started me down this rabbit hole. No watchmaker was willing to undertake the job, citing the repair cost was going to more than the value of the watch.

So after watching Mark's video, I ventured down this slippery slope and have not been able to get out since.

The euphoria and sense of achievement when you succeed is addictive. So be warned.

[Chandler]

I appreciate all the advice and support! When reinserting the stem, is there a need to press the release button? 

[jdm]

5 minutes ago, Chandler said:

I appreciate all the advice and support! When reinserting the stem, is there a need to press the release button? 

You can get to answer this by yourself, for any mov.t and any stem, by looking at it. If there is a chamfer pointing to the tip, there is no strict need to.

[Manxcat]

This problem is what pulled me in too.  A friend had a Tissot with a 2824-2 in it and the stem had been pulled out when he took his hand out of his pocket...twice.  The second time it would not go back in right...but he did try really hard to make it.  He sent it to Tissot for repair and as others had said, they only wanted to replace the movement which my friend was not ready to pay for...so it sat for years until I started watching watch videos.

Getting the keyless works apart was easy enough, discovering the yoke had jumped was easy enough, getting everything back in place was pretty easy, but it would not set correctly, it would get stuck between date and time.  Turns out the yoke was bent and the corner of the setting level was worn off.  I replaced those, rebuilt the watch, and it runs really well.  I did have one instance of the yoke jumping while I was reassembling and while I am pretty sure I had it in time set position...I am not 100%.  I did tear it down again, realign everything, and get it back together.  

I do have a Rado with a 2824-1 that had the winding pinion gears almost completely ground off.  That was the most impressive carnage I have found in a watch so far.  Perhaps this movements weak point has always been the keyless works?

Edited March 25, 2022 by Manxcat
SP

[chriz74]

Check this 

Keyless work

[Chandler]

My interest in watches at the moment is more on the design. I’ve really enjoyed getting the parts and building a watch that looks the way I want it to.
 

I’d love to build another watch but knowing how finicky the 2824 can be. Is there another common movement that is a bit hardier and still able to be had around the $50 mark? 

[jdm]

28 minutes ago, Chandler said:

Is there another common movement that is a bit hardier and still able to be had around the $50 mark? 

Yes, the ubiquitous SII (Seiko) NH35.

[VWatchie]

On 3/25/2022 at 4:16 AM, Manxcat said:

Perhaps this movements weak point has always been the keyless works?

I wouldn't go so far but it would seem to me that the winding pinion and the sliding pinion of the automatic 2824/2836 (not the manual 2801 and 2804) was not designed for daily manual winding, just for getting it going after a full stop. That is, after a full stop, rotate the crown no more than five to ten times, and let the automatic works do the rest.

The first time I encountered a worn winding pinion and a worn the sliding pinion it was an enigma.

I've serviced a few ETA movements having this keyless works design (2824-2, 2836-2, 2804-2) but luckily never had any problems removing and replacing the stem, which is probably a bit of a miracle as I usually bump into challenges no one else seem to have any problems with.

BTW, this is what the ETA 28XX stem looks like:

[VWatchie]

On 3/27/2022 at 3:04 PM, jdm said:

Yes, the ubiquitous SII (Seiko) NH35.

And there's plenty of cases, dials, and hands to choose from on eBay!

Unfortunately, these movements are in my experience a lot harder to service and repair as they have the minuscule diafix springs and cap jewels for the escape wheel and third wheel (just to press up the jewel count, I would guess). Also, the barrel complete isn't really serviceable and new barrel completes and/or mainsprings seem near impossible to source. No problem if you're building a new watch but I thought I'd mention it.

[LittleWatchShop]

On 4/18/2022 at 7:31 AM, VWatchie said:

never had any problems removing and replacing the stem

Chandler sent his watch to me and I fixed it for him (a free service).  I tried the Mark technique but ultimately went in on the dial side to get it done.

The problem with his configuration was that the movement did not fit well in the case he bought.  The movement fell toward the crystal and as a result there was not a straight shot through the tube into the movement.  As a result, the stem tended to go in at an angle...a slight one, but enough to screw up the wonky 2824 keyless works.  Once I realized this, I had to slightly lift the movement at the stem side so that I got a straight shot.

So, the 2824, as awkward as it is was made worse by this situation.  Anybody would have a problem, I imagine.

Edited April 21, 2022 by LittleWatchShop