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As @Nucejoe says, the terminal curve looks wrong. And it looks like scratches on the underside of the balance - strange!

You are right, the balance is not at the correct angle to the balance cock. Is the upper pivot sat correctly in the jewel ? 

Somethings wrong there

 

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Normally I'm not a big fan of looking at the balance wheel out of the watch because usually the problem with the balance wheel isn't when it's out of the watch it's when it's in the watch. But I snipped out there image and put a couple a little lines in a circle. If you notice the terminal curve how the spacing when it starts off from the stud the outer terminal curve spacing in relationship to the rest of the hairspring starts off relatively small and actually gets bigger which is not supposed to do.

Then I circled your stud it may be misleading because the balance is out of the watch it really need to look at it back in the watch but it looks like because of the bend of the terminal curve that the outer coil of the hairspring is almost if not touching the stud itself. This could all be caused except terminal curve because the balances out in its leaning a little bit the terminal curve does look like it's not quite bench right

this is where if you're going to fix it you ideally want to do it in the watch C can see what the heck you're doing because it might look really beautiful out of the watch and look like total crap in the watch and that's where it has to look right

Then depth of field for close-up pictures is really really really hard to doSo we really can't see what we need to see with the balance wheel other than were all in agreement it doesn't look right? I initially thought the balance bridge look like it was up I think it's probably where it's supposed to be. Even when I magnified image it's hard to tell whether the balance wheel is exactly where it's supposed to be. ButWe don't have the proper depth of field which we need to see. So not sure if the balance wheel is not parallel to the plate but if you look at the hairspring it looks like it's angling downwards a little bit which of course is going to make the balance wheel look like maybe it's angling upwards a little bit? We also can't see the hairspring at the stud as to how close it is there.

Then you want to be really careful when you're playing with your Omega hairspring because they're usually butter soft. There also usually really really expensive like all the components in the Omega watch. This is were ideally before playing with hairsprings inexpensive watches should have been practicing with cheaper hairsprings in disposable watches. Practicing looking at how the hairspring looks practice bending the hairspring the practice bending the hairspring back that sort of thing so that when you come time to do something like this you get a grasping of maybe what you're supposed to be doing as opposed to the easy route a buying a balance complete after all it's an Omega how expensive could that possibly be?

 

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omeha 1010 hs.JPG

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From the side on view the balance does not look level.. Is the endshake of the balance ok? It should have no discernible movement but will allow a free balance to spin freely.

 

I will go back to basics..

1. Remove, clean, inspect and oil the balance holes and the pivots. The positional error is too great. A damaged or dirty  jewel is my suspicion here.

2. Dismount the balance from the cock, remove hairsprng and install balance and balance cock. Check for free movement and levelness of the balance, not only as it spins but also relative to the main plate.

3. Reattach the hairspring + balance to the balance cock and install it back on to the naked mainplate. On most watches you should be able to see some limiting stops for the pallet fork (either banking pins or cast in the mainplate. The impulse jewel should be in tne centre when the balance is at rest. The beat error using this method will usually be less than 1 which is acceptable. If you cannot determine the exact centre then the impulse jewel should be on a line drawn from the balance pivot to the pallet-fork pivot (at least on this movement.. there are some others with offset levers).

4. Also check all wheel pivots and jewels.. A jewel with a chip in it will run but if it is in a position where the chip is bottom-most thenit will run badly.

Good luck.

Anilv

 

 

Anilv

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi, 

I've checked the balance as nucejoe suggested, removed the cap jewels to check the pivots are seated correctly , replaced them then checked for wobble, this is the amount of movement I'm getting. Is this about correct or is there too much movement?

Going to do a full clean again, the rebuild following recomendations from you all, will post timegrapher results with correct mounting and movement only.

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One of the minor problems with your image is that if you push hard enough on any balance that has a protection system for the pivots it will definitely move. The whole purpose of the shock protection system is to prevent the balance pivots from breaking. So I can't tell in your video how much force your putting on the balance but if you put force exactly what you're seeing will occur it's the system protecting the pivots from breaking.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Gra said:

Going to do a full clean again, the rebuild following recomendations from you all, will post timegrapher results with correct mounting and movement only.

Maybe we take a different approach here like what is the problem?

1 hour ago, Marc said:

That's way way too much movement there and would suggest that you may have a broken balance pivot.

As were now in to are second page of discussion I can't remember if you ever took the balance out and check the pivots?

It looks like from the image above the movement is now out the hands and dial are off maybe a nice picture for us of each side of the balance jewels in place maybe we will see something that you didn't see before?

Edited by JohnR725
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Hi John,

Been trying to get a photograph where you can see some detail but no luck, they are just not sharp enough to see what is happening.

I've looked through a 20x loupe and everything looks ok, the balance jewel is fine, I can't see any chips around any of the jewels.

Will try to get my hands on a microscope, if so will post photo's

regarding the pressure against the balance, I tried to be very gentle, but I see your point, what I think is gentle might still be too much.

Going back to my original post, I was trying to find out why when the watch was left alone on the bench (on its back) it kept very good time, but when worn it gained time at about 5 min per hour.

Graham

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3 minutes ago, Gra said:

Been trying to get a photograph where you can see some detail but no luck,

Yes getting decent watch photos can be problematic. Not necessarily expensive though 99% of all the photographs I've ever taken is with a Canon SD 1000 camera. This is a small ancient point-and-shoot camera. What makes it interesting is it has a digital macro mode hopefully the word macro is right? In other words you put in a digital mode and it will magnify and then you can take all kinds of nice photos of watch parts. Then of course edit the photos and make things even bigger to make your point of view.

So in the absence of photos you become our eyes for diagnostic purposes.

Microscopes are both good and bad. The bad aspect is looking at something now that's really the egg doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be easier for you to grasp which are looking at.

From the picture the problem appears to be related to the balance wheel. That would mean the balance pivots if one is missing or both are missing unlikely on a system like your watch though but they still could be missing. The balance jewels?

I think I mentioned it to pages I'm probably going repeat myself or repeat what others said. I'd have to go back and look at the parts list I can't remember if the balance hole jewels are identical? Many times on watches the dial side will be smaller and thinner. On the other side to bigger so visually can see how impressive they look yes they really are there for the visual aspect and the functionality which is why that side of the watches usually nicer the dial side. Sometimes the settings with the jewel may be identical but the end stone on the movement side is thicker that's the make up for the thickness of the plate the regulation components etc. Then we also have the end stones have a curved in a flat surface the flat surface has to go down.

Shouldn't happen on a wristwatch if somebody bent the bridge up that would cause too much and shake and you'd see something like this perhaps.

If you're not seeing the problem take a break. If you have another watch to work on look at that look at how it works look at the pivots sometimes taking a break in looking at something else you might recognize something you're not seeing on this watch.

 

 

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Hi John,

Sorry for the delay, hope these are photo's of what you were referring to.

The balance pivots look fine (one can only be seen through the jewel and although it isn't very clear it is there).

The balance spring looks all bunched up to me (I've highlighted it on a photo) I thought this earlier but trying to get the distance  of the terminal curve more even seems to have made it worse. I have no idea how to correct this and would probably destroy it trying. I've just remounted it and taken another photo and it looks more even.

Going to rebuild the watch following the various advice offered by others and see how this goes, will post a report when completed.

Graham

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  • 3 months later...

Hi everyone,

Well it's been a while but I managed to find a new old stock balance complete. I fitted this about a month ago and the watch has been running brilliantly ever since. I am really really pleased with it.

Just thought I'd bring you all up to speed and close this thread, thanks for all your help everyone.

Gra

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