First Balance Staff Replacement

[djqsrv]

Hello everyone

I just received my new staking set. This was the last needed tool for a balance staff replacement.

It was not as hard a job as I thought it would be. forming the rivet went very smooth and I now have a new balance assembly.

I need to true the balance now. I am looking for some advice on this procedure. I was hoping that someone had a video but it looks like I'm out of luck.

I am wondering if I should make adjustments to the balance wile it is in the calipers? I am afraid that I could break the pivots if I did so. But it does not make sense to take it out of the calipers because then you wouldn't be able to see exactly where to make an adjustment.

I would appreciate any tips you might be able to give me.

Thanks

[Gotwatch]

Congratulations! That's quite an accomplishment. Good for you. :)

 

Adjust the true in the calipers, gently. Adjust the poise on a poising stand. Both can be done in the calipers but not as accurate as on a poising stand.

[anilv]

earlier post got stuck halfway and I cant edit?..anyway...

 

Check the pivot holes in your truing caliper, the holes should be deep enough so that when you tighten them up they sit against the shoulders..this will give the staff some additional support as the pressure is taken by the shoulder. The tool part should be a bit concave before the holes start.

 

Before removing the balance from the old staff, you should eyeball the balance assembly to ensure no gross misalignment is present. Any such misalignment can be corrected  before removing the balance from the staff.

 

When removing the balance from the staff, use the correct tool!. It is tempting to 'short-cut' the process and push/pull the balance off the old staff once the rivet has been ground off but remember that the balance arms are very thin and weak, pushing on the edge applies a lot of stress on the arms and it will bend.

 

Before installing the balance, inspect for any metal or burrs which will get in the way of the balance seating correctly.  Once balance installed on staff, check alignment before riveting. If something is not correct, remove, correct the balance, re-install, re-check. repeat until alignment is perfect.

 

When riveting,the first strike should be firm and square. You're staking set is important.. make sure your stake tips are correct for the job and even.

 

hope this helps!

 

Anil

[Gotwatch]

Anil, I tend to short my responses thinking common sense or skill level would know. I like your response very much as it goes into deep detail and answers a lot of areas that may be over looked.

 

Thank you for your participation and effort.

 :)

[clockboy]

One thing I have noticed after fitting a balance staff sometimes the balance does not spin flat. This I have found is not the balance staff fitting flush but somtimes the cross brace (sorry don,t know its correct name) that the balance fits into distorts a touch. That is why with a Platax tool or any balance staff tool when removing the old staff this part must be supported to avoid it distorting. However if I do find a balance not running flat I check this area first. If it is distorted I give it some gentle taps with a large flat punch on a split stump (to protect the balance staff) to get it flat again.

[Henrique]

Hi,

 

For 2 of my projects, change the balance staff is mandatory. Currently I'm considering which are the best tools to carry out this job. Buy a Platax tool is not a priority. I have a modest staking set, but I need some extra tools to take this operation smoothly as possible. Bergeon 5483 was a possibility but the price makes me think twice...how about to use some of the assorted stakes and punches that come with the Platax? Does anyone recommend a budget tool to carry out this job? My main concern is the deformation of the balance arms as pointed out by clockboy on a previous post. I think that a compromise between pressure on the staff and correct clamping on the balance arms must be achieved.

[clockboy]

If you find one of these on the Bay worth a punt. It works great with the staking tool. I have used it a lot with the larger balance staffs. It works on a spring action & has worked every time I have used it.

 

 

[Geo]

I've never use one CB. Could you explained exactly how you go about it and what it has a spring?

[clockboy]

The Unit fits into the staking tools just as fitting a normal punch. In the end is a small hole that fits over the old staff and as you push down the bottom of the tool rests & steadies the balance arm. Inside of the tool is a small pusher & with the pressure it just snaps the old staff out.

I don,t think it would work with a small watch staff (Although never tried) but for pocket watch staffs etc. it works a treat. Next time I use it I will try & do a short vid.

[Geo]

Thanks for that CB. :)

[djqsrv]

well. Another staff has been ordered. :(

I made a stupid user error wile truing the balance. My caliper has one side with holes for the pivots and the other side is just concave posts with no holes.

I used the side with the holes and I had it pretty true. Well I figured I would try the concave sides to see if they would work better.

No better but with just enough pressure I could get a nice read on the trueness of the balance.

The whole time I was holder the calipers the same way and I knew that if I slid my thumb up the wheel I would loosen the calipers. Well at some point I flipped the calipers over and I guess I forgot. So I put my thumb on the screw and pushed it up expecting the wheel to drop out. Well I'm sure you have guessed where I'm going with this. I tightened them to the point where it smashed the pivots down. Now my brand new balance staff has smashed little balls of metal at the ends instead of long thin pivots.

I'm going to chalk this one up to live and learn.

At least the removal and instillation of the staff went without a hitch.

[Henrique]

Yes CB, the Bergeon 5483 looks very similar.

[djqsrv]

Balance staff replacement. Take 2. :)

Wile I am waiting on my order that includes the balance staff for the Elgin I decided to move on to a Hamilton 16s that is waiting on a balance staff replacement.

Cut the old staff out and riveted in the new one. Process went just as smooth as it did on the Elgin.

Stripped the movement down and gave it a good cleaning. Reassemble and lube and then it was time for the moment of truth.

Installed the balance assembly and was very pleased that it swung with no clearance problem.

Gave the watch a couple of winds and there she went ticking away!

So I guess I will have to call this one my first balance staff replacement. At least fully successful.

Bought this one pretty cheap. These watches with broken staffs are very available at great prices. I am so glad staff replacement is now a repair I can do.

Thanks everyone for all the knowledge and advice I have picked up from you guys.

Here is the watch.

Hamilton Watch Co

16s. 17 Jewels

Grade 974. Stem wind, lever set.

Made in 1927

Runs sooooooo strong and held within 15 seconds the first 12 hours it's been going!

[Geo]

A good job and very satisfying! :)

[anilv]

If this is your second attempt then you're way ahead of the game!

Anil

[djqsrv]

I am loving this staking set! I don't know why I waited so long to get one.

Replaced the staff in the Elgin again. Thus time I only used the calipers with the holes for the pivots. Tried up and installed.

Then a whole bunch of other problems reared their ugly head. I think I inherited another amateurs problems and mistakes. I am guessing that is the case because the watch was clean as a whistle. Like it was just serviced. But it had a broken balance staff. I think someone was messing with it and finally gave up and sold it.

The staff was way to tight between the balance jewels. I double and triple checked that I had the correct staff and it measured up correctly. My guess is someone pressed the jewel in further trying to make a broken staff fit. So I decided to press the jewel in the balance cock out a fraction. I chose that jewel as it looked I had a little more room on that side. After that I reinstalled the balance and she started ticking away. It's been running for 2 days so I did a test and she us holding within a min over a 24hr period. I'm very happy with that.

It's great to have this one up and running as its my favorite of my pocket watches.

Here are some pics.

And I thank everyone for the help provided in answering all my question.

Elgin 18s 17 Jewels

B.W. Raymond

Grade 116

1895

[Geo]

Great result, and what a lovely watch. :)

[clockboy]

Great result lovely looking watch