Quality Chinese Tools

[JohnFrum]

22 hours ago, Malocchio said:

Aren't those Chinese punches 5mm? Vintage ones are 4,7mm.

Ah.. good point. Just measured them and they are indeed 5mm standard. So copy rather than true clone and majority of vintage stakes won’t be held properly. I suppose a 5.0 OD - 4.7 ID bushing in brass may allow use of supplementary acquired stakes but would be cumbersome. Or acquire some Indian 5.0 stakes. I see there is at least one US supplier of Indian made staking sets. 

http://tuxedonyc.com/watch-tools/R-Stakes.html

Realistically the Chinese set meets my staking needs for now. 

 

[LittleWatchShop]

On 2/28/2023 at 8:59 AM, LittleWatchShop said:

I am pondering buying a Horia clone.  I have two Seitz tools which work great, but I would like to have the control the Horia micrometer gives.  My Seitz uses 3mm base plate stumps and 4mm spindle.  I have seen the clone in various configurations to accommodate this 3/4mm issue.

Received it today.  Not bad so far!  Only did one test.

[gpraceman]

Glad to see this thread.  While I often get the name brand quality tool, it is not always in the budget to do so.  So, having some good budget options is great.  I'll make sure to refer to this thread any time I am looking for a budget option.

I do have some feedback on this particular tool below, which I documented in another thread.  I purchased this recently via AliExpress.

I think basically, if you are looking to save a substantial amount of money on one of these budget tools, be prepared to do some work on them.  They are budget because they often don't use the best materials, keep as tight of tolerances, nor have as good of quality control as the name brand tool.  But for a hobbyist's use, they may be perfectly serviceable.   If they work perfectly out of the box, then fabulous.  That was not the case on this tool.  The manufacturer used an incorrect grub screw, which caused binding and some minor damage to the shaft.  Much like servicing a watch, this tool benefited from a complete tear down, cleaning, reassembly and lubrication.  I was able to install the correct size grub screw, and fix a minor alignment issue between the upper and lower parts of the press.  For any other budget tool, I'll look to take the same tear down and rebuild approach.

I did complain about the issue with this tool to AilExpress and they provided a full refund and I didn't need to send the tool back.  So, in the end I have a usable tool for the cost of a grub screw and a bit of my time.  I figure that gives me money to apply to a different tool.

 

On 3/25/2022 at 7:22 AM, Paul80 said:

A quality product that is well worth the asking price and actually worth a lot more.

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by gpraceman

[gpraceman]

I do have a question about another Chinese tool.  The horia clone set.  Looking at the set of pushers and anvils that these always seem to come with, it doesn't look like there is a pair tiny enough to change out the arbor on a pallet fork.  One of my project watches has a broken pallet fork pivot and it looks like the pallet forks come separate from the arbors.

I see that Cousins has a pallet staff pusher and anvil set (rather expensive) but would that work in this Chinese horia tool?  Do these sets use 3mm or 4mm pushers and anvils?

I'll probably wait to get more experience under my belt before trying such a microscopic repair, but it seems that eventually I will need to change out some jewels.

[LittleWatchShop]

48 minutes ago, gpraceman said:

I do have a question about another Chinese tool.  The horia clone set.  Looking at the set of pushers and anvils that these always seem to come with, it doesn't look like there is a pair tiny enough to change out the arbor on a pallet fork.  One of my project watches has a broken pallet fork pivot and it looks like the pallet forks come separate from the arbors.

I see that Cousins has a pallet staff pusher and anvil set (rather expensive) but would that work in this Chinese horia tool?  Do these sets use 3mm or 4mm pushers and anvils?

I'll probably wait to get more experience under my belt before trying such a microscopic repair, but it seems that eventually I will need to change out some jewels.

I just recently bought this. I am away from home now so cannot answer specifics, but I am impressed with the quality.

[thor447]

4 hours ago, gpraceman said:

I do have a question about another Chinese tool.  The horia clone set.  Looking at the set of pushers and anvils that these always seem to come with, it doesn't look like there is a pair tiny enough to change out the arbor on a pallet fork.  One of my project watches has a broken pallet fork pivot and it looks like the pallet forks come separate from the arbors.

I see that Cousins has a pallet staff pusher and anvil set (rather expensive) but would that work in this Chinese horia tool?  Do these sets use 3mm or 4mm pushers and anvils?

I'll probably wait to get more experience under my belt before trying such a microscopic repair, but it seems that eventually I will need to change out some jewels.

You can find them in either 3mm or 4mm.  I bought a 4mm set, and had to sand down flat a couple of the anvils as they had a few pieces from the casting still attached, but since then it's done a wonderful job.  I've done several jewel replacements and adjustments with mine since receiving it.  I find I use it quite regularly.  Now that I have one, I've been meticulous about checking and adjusting end shake.

It was my first purchase from Ali Express.  While it took a couple of weeks to arrive, I certainly don't regret getting a clone tool in this instance.  This is the one I purchased:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802886227821.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.5.1e041802MHfxnd&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa&_randl_shipto=US

Edited April 7, 2023 by thor447

[VWatchie]

21 hours ago, gpraceman said:

I see that Cousins has a pallet staff pusher and anvil set (rather expensive) but would that work in this Chinese horia tool?  Do these sets use 3mm or 4mm pushers and anvils?

You might find these two posts of mine useful:

 

[gpraceman]

2 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

You might find these two posts of mine useful:

 

I did see those posts.  I do know, based on experience, that the drawback of these less expensive options is that I may need to do some work on them.  Case in point, my recent experience with the watch press tool.  On the horia clone tool, if needed, I have a milling machine that I can use as a vertical lathe to do some minor turning down of parts.

[Waggy]

Not sure if this technically qualifies in this topic, but it is a thrifty 'tool' purchase:

[thor447]

1 hour ago, Waggy said:

Not sure if this technically qualifies in this topic, but it is a thrifty 'tool' purchase:

I ordered one tonight.  Great idea, thank you!

Edited May 7, 2023 by thor447

[HectorLooi]

Nice one. I got another brush holder from AliExpress. A little less elegant. 

It had 96 holes and it's already getting very crowded.

[GuyMontag]

On 4/9/2022 at 4:16 AM, Paul80 said:

Hi all

Time for the next update in this series.  This time we have Hand Press tool but not the cheap red ones often found comming out of china, this one is a serious bit of kit and at £102 it sould be

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4000316385317.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2fra&spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef5e5btCjVvv

This tool is night and day better than the cheap red ones and makes hand fitting a real brease.

Its similarity to the almost a grand Bergeon tool is starting to make me think Bergeon are pulling a fast one and also having their tools made in China and just packing them in their own boxes and hiking the prices.  OK I have my tin hat on after that comment  but I would not be surprised if it were true

A few pics of the actual tool

 

Does an adjustable movement holder exist that can handle different sized movements and can be used with this tool or do you need to get individual holders for each movement?

[Waggy]

Here is what you need:

Link Here

Edited May 18, 2023 by Waggy

[GuyMontag]

1 hour ago, Waggy said:

Here is what you need:

Link Here

Thanks, I had looked at that back in February earlier in this thread and had some questions that I'm still not sure about:

1. I don't see how the movement is secured. Unless the train side is totally flat, wouldn't the movement wobble around?
2. Is the center support spring loaded? Do you have to manually adjust it for each movement and if so, how do you know when the center support is at the right "depth" and supporting the jewel?

[Waggy]

6 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

1. I don't see how the movement is secured. Unless the train side is totally flat, wouldn't the movement wobble around?

The movement sits on top. so you have to hold it steady with your fingers, it is not gripped by the device

6 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

2. Is the center support spring loaded? Do you have to manually adjust it for each movement and if so, how do you know when the center support is at the right "depth" and supporting the jewel?

I think the actual Bergeon version is spring loaded, but this copy uses a grub screw, so you have to manually adjust the height of the table to expose more or less of the support pin each time. To be honest I have raised the 'table' above the height of the center support pin (so you can no longer see the pin) and leave it there all the time and it seems to work fine.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Waggy
typo/clarification

[GuyMontag]

That makes sense, thanks.

[thor447]

I just got one of these delivered from Ali Express on Monday of this week.  I couldn't find one of the Bergeon one's in stock anywhere outside of eBay, but I just refused to pay the prices they were asking.  The Ali Express version is a manually adjusted unit with a grub screw and a set screw, but it seems to work just fine.  It's right at 31mm at the base so it fits in the hand press tool nicely.  It seems good enough!

[rossjackson01]

 

7 hours ago, Waggy said:

Here is what you need:

Link Here

pardon my ignorance, but I don't se how the item is secured, not any different to below?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295564362901?hash=item44d1024495:g:ob8AAOSwnztkDsON&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4PPOgjsvlh%2BpZUBWXAjm2E0xGNlrHL93GZShujCoEs6Qjx7%2FvRAgfnoeB4RZf96MJZCvYnmhdcivXqW6cwu5PlmTH%2Bn3wdI7S2IQSJBZx%2B1wnTmLTM5kJeNPCBQFFT6FgwG4raXPQqricVpl4EfYA%2BJv3712nIZYimFODN7QAGQoIpgZ947EQYOGbMw5kqJivumoxJpShX%2BYbMp21ylDbcPo5pyM5cxGVyH2wVvVzXQpbhK1MMZQH11a38z0KCXOQq0RU5%2BKAID5tl9x7xbMN1vId8eGzG3LtIhXDb7ZN2Oq|tkp%3ABFBM0onF4YVi

What am I missing?

Edited May 18, 2023 by rossjackson01
Spelling, Grammar

[Waggy]

1 hour ago, rossjackson01 said:

not any different to below

It's not how I would have designed it, but the part provides a hard platform for the pushers to push against, if it was a cushion then it could (in theory??) deflect to the side slightly so the movement was no longer perfectly perpendicular to the pusher hands and skew the hand setting. Additionally, you need some sort of platform so the pusher hands can reach the movement. Also, there is a cup on the base for the movement holders to fit in which means you would have to try and balance the cushion on this during the hand setting process introducing a whole other level of wobble (like I said it's not how I would have designed it). The hand setting device comes with half a dozen cal specific movement holders which grip those specific movements (unlike the platform), for everything else (99.9999% of all other movements ) you need the platform. The movement holders (and platform) slot into the bottom cup, but I suppose you could use a regular movement holder (eg like a 4040) as long as it straddled the cup and didn't impinge on the hand setting mechanism and the hand pushers could still reach the movement.

All that being said, if you use the platform its a great bit of equipment and takes a lot of the guesswork out of setting the hands.

Sorry not my best explanation ever, hope it makes sense.

[rossjackson01]

Thank you Scott

Makes sense having a solid base. But even leaving the movement on the table would give a solid base. As you said, in a holder  it would have a solid base. Ah well! All I want for my birthday a staking set. Not going to happen, but I can dream.

[Waggy]

2 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

All I want for my birthday a staking set

I have a Chinese one that works well, in fact I just fixed the arbour hole in the barrel bridge with it so quite pleased with myself, only the second time I have tried. Would recommend the one I have.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314091548925

Hopefully father Christmas will be good to you

 

[rossjackson01]

52 minutes ago, Waggy said:

I have a Chinese one that works well, in fact I just fixed the arbour hole in the barrel bridge with it so quite pleased with myself, only the second time I have tried. Would recommend the one I have.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314091548925

Hopefully father Christmas will be good to you

 

Father Christmas is a dream. Looks like a good price, and it is the one I am aiming for. My saving rate may make it, but I doubt it. Donor parts are the requisite first. Think it will be a 12 month target. Time passes easily when you have this hobby. Good innit?

[GuyMontag]

3 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

Thank you Scott

Makes sense having a solid base. But even leaving the movement on the table would give a solid base. As you said, in a holder  it would have a solid base. Ah well! All I want for my birthday a staking set. Not going to happen, but I can dream.

The two main advantages of the Bergeon and clone base shown above are that 1). The holder slots into the cup on the base of the hand setting tool such that the pusher is perfectly lined up over the hand; you don't need to slide the holder around trying to get it exactly lined up for each hand that you put on. And 2), there is a support on the holder that will keep the center jewel from being accidentally pushed/moved when pressing on the hand.

 

I did come across this 3D printed base, but while this would work it would it removes the advantage of not having to line up the movement and the pusher each time you put on a hand.



 

[JohnFrum]

Interesting find on AliExpress - KwongYuen branded staking set with inverto base. Seems to have staff removal tools? 

[HectorLooi]

Kwong Yeun is known to make above average quality tools, as one of our members from China previously mentioned.

But from what I know, the stakes are 5.0mm diameter, so it's not compatible with vintage K&D sets. But if you are using their complete set, then that's not a problem.