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At the risk of inspiring you guys who have to have one of everything (like me) to spend money on one of these, I thought I'd show a photo of a Chinese-made tool I jut bought. It's not a watchmaker tool but rather a tool to make tools which can easily include many watchmaker things.

The first applicable thing that comes to mind is... screwdriver blades. My back story here is that I have some 3/16" and 1/4" titanium rod that's been sitting around for forever, and I got to thinking that since I could use some really nice screwdrivers, rather than blow a bunch of money on a set, I'll just make my own... out of titanium. The blades can be made from whatever, and though you can easily enough just hone some stock into good tips by hand, this machine could dang quick whip out a set. The titanium shafts and delrin knobs are another project, but also another whole story. Just an idea I had and plan to implement coming up. I'm a machinist by trade so my newly accepted tangent into watchmaking is adjacent.

Anyways, I wonder what you other guys can dream up that this machine might be handy for in the watchmaking realm.

Behold, the cutter grinder:

IMG_20230124_192241_223.jpg.02986e7ecad615a71e097b2a9451a28b.jpg

These run around a grand delivered, give or take. A full complement of decent wheels is another half that, but you can get by with what it comes with for a fair while.

Anyways, any thoughts?

Edited by Vinito
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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm thinking about picking up one of these Bergeon 5409 knockoffs for supporting the center jewel when installing hands. To date I've just been using my normal movement holder when installing hands and was wondering how much of a concern it is if the center jewel is not supported? Is it something to be worried about?

I'm also not clear on how this movement holder actually works. Is the center support spring loaded? Do you have to manually adjust it for each movement and if so, how do you know when the center support is at the right "depth" and supporting the jewel?

 

 

Watch-Movement-Holder-Base-Stainless-Steel-Multi-Functional-Movement-Repairing-Tool-for-Needle-Mounting-for-Watchmaker_jpg_Q90.jpg__webp_75.thumb.jpg.ba33509376130fea7364f2aae6094d16.jpg

 

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14 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

...was wondering how much of a concern it is if the center jewel is not supported? Is it something to be worried about?

As a data point...

...I've watched a lot of YT videos of successful watchmakers reassembly watches and I can't say that I've ever seen anyone move the watch from a regular movement holder to one that looks like the one you've shown. This leads me to believe there must be something else in play. 

Of course, I haven't been very successful in my watch endeavors. So take this with a grain of salt. 

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I'm looking for a recommendation for a tap and die set to cover most watch repair operations - anyone have and good or bad experience?

On 2/17/2023 at 6:48 AM, GuyMontag said:

I'm thinking about picking up one of these Bergeon 5409 knockoffs for supporting the center jewel when installing hands. To date I've just been using my normal movement holder when installing hands and was wondering how much of a concern it is if the center jewel is not supported? Is it something to be worried about?

I'm also not clear on how this movement holder actually works. Is the center support spring loaded? Do you have to manually adjust it for each movement and if so, how do you know when the center support is at the right "depth" and supporting the jewel?

 

 

Watch-Movement-Holder-Base-Stainless-Steel-Multi-Functional-Movement-Repairing-Tool-for-Needle-Mounting-for-Watchmaker_jpg_Q90.jpg__webp_75.thumb.jpg.ba33509376130fea7364f2aae6094d16.jpg

 

Also looking at one of these Bergeon 5409 knockoffs, I think the center should be spring loaded, but looking at the knock-offs there seems to be a grub screw so maybe it doesn't have the spring loaded feature? Anyone use one... please supply a link as there are loads of Ali/eBay to choose from.

 

Edited by Waggy
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On 1/17/2023 at 3:36 PM, JohnFrum said:

The equivalent Swiss tools are not affordable for the hobbyist. My 99 USD jeweling tool clone from China works just fine for my occasional usage. There is also nothing shoddy about it.

I am pondering buying a Horia clone.  I have two Seitz tools which work great, but I would like to have the control the Horia micrometer gives.  My Seitz uses 3mm base plate stumps and 4mm spindle.  I have seen the clone in various configurations to accommodate this 3/4mm issue.

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2 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I am pondering buying a Horia clone.  I have two Seitz tools which work great, but I would like to have the control the Horia micrometer gives.  My Seitz uses 3mm base plate stumps and 4mm spindle.  I have seen the clone in various configurations to accommodate this 3/4mm issue.

Doesn’t the Seitz with 3mm pushers come with a bushing to go up to 4mm (3rd row, last hole on the right in the bakelite holder)?

https://2makers.weebly.com/seitz-jeweling-tool.html

343D89C2-5860-4572-9999-7BA55648F66C.thumb.jpeg.e253e835eb79adaedadc3e16d52482d1.jpeg

Edited by JohnFrum
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1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Pictures!  Also the seller, so if you like it, I can use the same.

I bought this exact one.  Aside from 2 anvils that I filed down the tops to be perfectly flat, I haven't had any issues whatsoever.  It only took a minute or two to level the tops of those anvils.   For the price, they're really hard to beat.  

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256802886227821.html

I've used it quite a lot since receiving it, including the replacement of 5 jewels in the 6139 Pogue in the video I posted a couple of days ago.

Edited by thor447
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4 minutes ago, thor447 said:

I bought this exact one. 

And just now...so did I!!  Thanks.  My Seitz uses 3mm anvils but has a 3-4 converter, so I can continue to use them if the Chinese one's are a little off.

23 minutes ago, JohnFrum said:

Doesn’t the Seitz with 3mm pushers come with a bushing to go up to 4mm (3rd row, last hole on the right in the bakelite holder)?

YES indeed!  I have to use it because my stumps are all 3mm.  I do have a Seitz 3mm base but I prefer to use the 4mm one...it is prettier!!

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2 hours ago, aac58 said:

Can these Horia clones be used to ream the hole for the jewel? It is so tempting 

Unfortunately no. They have not yet cloned the version of the Horia with the lever nor the Bergeon-Seitz

I’ve previously posted about the Chinese glass/Al copies of the two Bergeon balance spring manipulation tools with hole for the collet

9E5F8F8A-0A0C-452B-A72C-56B413D5408C.jpeg.f6c527d9f0a692fcf9c05efaf2d045cd.jpeg

now via both Aliexpress and Ebay there are copies of the Bergeon balance spring collet vice and the balance  complete manipulation holder. 
99C04E9D-2DA5-4117-86E0-2D0F89F0D872.thumb.png.63c6f77d33df9cd90ca0a7add2ca47f5.png
B4A11174-F337-4524-9905-FF72617C5B2C.jpeg.016bab4dc307687c5ee256d9804b2662.jpeg

I’ve never used the Horia so cannot compare but the Chinese Ruihua clone is a well made piece of kit. It can be supplemented with the Bergeon canon pinion stump/pusher, the pallet arbor stump/pusher, the incabloc set or any replacement single pusher or anvil available from Cousins, Otto Frei etc. 
 

82B0AD6D-D8E1-4FD2-BB53-A3BD4C214BE2.thumb.jpeg.38b40e4a379858f6978fca8e86e6d246.jpegD06EBC38-0D87-4B41-BFFE-7B5DEAAA8A0B.thumb.jpeg.2d21ea42ba20efbfb5ae63cf45cfbd83.jpeg

As is the Chinese clone of the Bergeon 5285-B.

It may not meet the standards of the Swiss original and cannot compare to a vintage K&D inverto but offers most of the functionality at a fraction of the price. It can be supplemented with additional stakes and stumps bought singly, either vintage or brand new from Bergeon. Ideal for the hobbyist  C40EE81A-5FBD-4353-A042-2F9B427F58A3.thumb.jpeg.d594d99f1571610d9879356224d50bbb.jpeg

 

Edited by JohnFrum
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9 hours ago, Waggy said:

Can you please provide links for these tools, thanks.

The balance holder copy

https://m.aliexpress.us/item/2251832851335827.html

Clone of the Bergeon staking set

https://m.aliexpress.us/item/3256804537425136.html

balance spring holder

https://m.aliexpress.us/item/3256804718227005.html

Horia clone

https://m.aliexpress.us/item/3256802886227821.html

Copy of the collet tightening tool  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/225180266640

https://m.aliexpress.us/item/3256804124263330.html

 

Edited by JohnFrum
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I do own a genuine one and I have found it really useful not just for reducing collets but the larger pipes of watch hand and also a steady when manipulating a hairspring. Having said this I see know reason why the Chinese version would not work 

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