Quality Chinese Tools

[Manxcat]

My favorite so far has been this watch crown pusher tube remover.  I technically didn't purchase it from China because it was on eBay with quicker shipping and actually cost less too, but its definitely this one from Ali:

Iron Watch Crown/Friction Tube Removal Pusher Punch Press Watchmaker Tool With 7 Bits(1.55/1.75/1.95/2.15/2.45/2.65/2.95mm)|Tool Parts| - AliExpress

[Paul80]

To go with the dial feet repair theme shown in the welding machine shown above a cheaper option is the brass replacements that are glued into place, the downside to this is if just glued to the back of the dial the head of the brass foot can raise the dial enough to give fitment issues, so whats needed is a tool to mill a flat bottomed hole into the back of the dial, just deep enough for the head to be flush with the back of the dial.

Prices vary so look around for other deals but this one is £63

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000539391167.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.1.254a6e72zaGioL

Another well made tool that does what it is designed to do

Kit includes the tool & Cutter, replacement cutters are available if you break the supplied one, 2 plastic movement holders and an assortment of feet in the common sizes

 

[jdm]

3 hours ago, Paul80 said:

To go with the dial feet repair theme shown in the welding machine shown above a cheaper option is the brass replacements that are glued into place, the downside to this is if just glued to the back of the dial the head of the brass foot can raise the dial enough to give fitment issues, so whats needed is a tool to mill a flat bottomed hole into the back of the dial, just deep enough for the head to be flush with the back of the dial.

For a comprehensive exposition on the subject, that goes beyond the mere tools and their price check the pinned topic which include an excellent video by our Host Mark Lovick on the subject:

 

[Paul80]

And he is using the same tool as well

[jdm]

33 minutes ago, Paul80 said:

And he is using the same tool as well

The type of tools yes, but their provenience as in 'Cheap Chinese', not.
For the dial pad milling tool, he's using a Swiss made which is very costly. The soldering one is made in EU by an individual. That being said, I know for a fact that he's not fixated about buying big brands, as long the job is done correctly without too aggravation.

[Paul80]

Sorry, I thought that was a link to Marks video where he does use the same tool 

 

[Paul80]

Hi all

Time for the next update in this series.  This time we have Hand Press tool but not the cheap red ones often found comming out of china, this one is a serious bit of kit and at £102 it sould be

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4000316385317.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2fra&spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef5e5btCjVvv

This tool is night and day better than the cheap red ones and makes hand fitting a real brease.

Its similarity to the almost a grand Bergeon tool is starting to make me think Bergeon are pulling a fast one and also having their tools made in China and just packing them in their own boxes and hiking the prices.  OK I have my tin hat on after that comment  but I would not be surprised if it were true

A few pics of the actual tool

 

[watchweasol]

I think you may be closer to th truth than you think on that one.

[Paul80]

Hi all

Time for the next tool in this series

This time is the good old Jewelling tool

Seen before on the forum but still well worth a second look here.

Again from Aliexpress for £117 for the tool and a nice selection of 24 pushers and anvils which are all well made and seem to do what they are supposed to do, 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000261581571.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.119c1802OtQ8wu

Obviously a clone of the well known Horia tool but a well made tool none the less and at a fraction of the originals asking price.

Not used it in anger yet but have used it a couple of times to adjust end shake and that function was performed faultlessly so doubt a jewel replacement will be an issue for this tool either, once a replacement jewel has been found that is.

Thanks for following this thread.

Paul

 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Paul80

[Paul80]

Hi all.

Its been awhile but now time to introduce the next tool in this series.

This time I introduce my Watherproof Watch Case opener, which is clearly based on the much more expensive Bergeon 5700.

I went with this one

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000394753607.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.7c8018028gGu7h

Which at £63 was quite a bit less than the £535 the Bergeon version is

Comparing the two side by side, there are a few differences most being cosmetic, like the measurement scale on the adjustable tool on the Bergeon version, on this version there a no scale markings, but in reality they are not needed, the only other difference is possibly the support spring, on the photos of the Bergeon one it appeares to be a little longer.

The Chinese one had one issue out of the box but it only took a few seconds to correct, out of the box the two raws (for want of a better word) were not quite the same difference from the center line of the tool, so with one lug in its slot in a case the other lug was out by about a millimeter.  This only took a few seconds to cottect by unscrewing the two locking grub screws in the Alluminium adjusters and sliding the threaded rod a millimeter to the correct position thenlock the screws gives an accurate possition.

One other difference that is first seen is the use of black plastic for the base were its wood on the bergeon tool, well it was wood on the Bergeon tool, as can be seen in the picture below even bergeon now sell their tool with a Plastic base.

Is this tool made in the same factory that Bergeon use for theirs but with less QC applied to keep the costs down, I would not be surprised, I worked in production engineering for years and seen the practice of having stuff made in China but boxed in their country and then claiming on the box to be made in the the boxing country before so would not be surprised if the reason so many Bergeon and Horotec tools look identical to some of the Chinese tools is because they all came of the same production line just with different finishing touches.

Still if its the same or not it does exactly waht it says it does on the tin (as they say) I comes with a useful selection of tools and adaptors to hold the case with or without a stap and different size and shape lugs in the case back.

If you only encounter a few divers watches with a super tight back this tool will pay for itself in no time at all.

pictures below, first is the current version of theBergeon tool, then a couple of the Chinese one I got from the link above.

 

 

[Rutabaga]

I could not open a watch case using my two different types of case openers so I decided to try out this Chinese 5700 type. While it took quite a bit of force to open the case,  the tool was easy to use. Quite worth it to save the aggravation and possible marking of the case.  As I am not a professional, the tool should be very satisfactory for my use.

[Neverenoughwatches]

Any thoughts on this ? Use of ? i have an idea with a little addition and adaption Accuracy of ?        

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133518805304?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=kM93z78PTHW&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=tBiLZaCfRb2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Edited June 13, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[gbyleveldt]

39 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Any thoughts on this ? Use of ? i have an idea with a little addition and adaption Accuracy of ?        

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133518805304?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=kM93z78PTHW&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=tBiLZaCfRb2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

What makes a micrometer designed for "watchmaking" so special? Is it that the measuring faces are larger than standard micrometers? I have a nice set of Insize micrometers I use for precision ammunition reloading with 0.001mm precision and they're more than enough for any jewel I've ever tried to measure. They even fit into a nice base so my hands are free and, of course, the convenience of being digital. Genuine question.

http://www.insize.com/page-27-893.html

Edited June 13, 2022 by gbyleveldt

[watchweasol]

Hi  As a tool they look very good, and the digital readout is clear.  I think its true that the term "watchmakers what ever" counjours up some magical idea of precision not used any where else and attracts a premium price. My opinion is that the ones you have displayed are equally as goos as any "watchmakers" micrometer.

[Neverenoughwatches]

21 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi  As a tool they look very good, and the digital readout is clear.  I think its true that the term "watchmakers what ever" counjours up some magical idea of precision not used any where else and attracts a premium price. My opinion is that the ones you have displayed are equally as goos as any "watchmakers" micrometer.

Thanks ww. I did pick up a free standing bergeon for a fraction of its retail price, but just wondered about these, more for a beginner's use and budget. And as a possible alternative for myself if im not happy with the bergeon.

[watchweasol]

Hi  I would say they look good the readout is clear and probably less prone to guess work as is the conventional micrometer as used by amatuers (near enough) attitude.  I have a digital vernier and a conventional Micrometer.

[Kalanag]

10 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Any thoughts on this ? Use of ? i have an idea with a little addition and adaption Accuracy of ?        

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133518805304?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=kM93z78PTHW&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=tBiLZaCfRb2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I‘ve got a Chinese dial gauge for my engine work. In my understanding the gearset of these devices guarantees a correct reading as long as the gear ratios are calculated and machined correctly (which is easy enough). The difference between high and low priced devices should be the play and the friction in the train of wheels. While the play is made zero by spring loading a higher friction has to be compensated by a stronger spring. So the main difference between cheap and pricy is most likely the force which is applied to the object being measured.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Kalanag

[Paul80]

Hi all

Time for the next tool in this series and this time we introduce a little controversy 

Yes we are now talking Chinese Watchmakers Screwdrivers, could there be such a thing as quality watchmakers screwdrivers from China, I think so.

 

I had in the past tried some low cost drivers from China and to be honest after a little bit of work, hardening and tempering and honing the blades they worked quite well, although in the end I settled on the French (A*F) set that Cousins sell, these were an excellent set but my only gripe would be that the thinner blades where a little to bendy and it was quite easy to bend them if applying pressure on a tight screw.

 

This led me to these.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002528364614.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.56751802D1Kqw7

These turned out to be a very high quality set with very rigid hard set of blades. Replacement blades are also available from the same seller should you need them.

For £23 plus VAT & P&P they are quite a bargain.

 

Again like some of the other tools in this list their similarity to some well known Swiss drivers may or may not be totally coincidental .  I can highly recommend these, so much so I have just bought a second set, just in case

Stay tuned there are some more controversial tools to be added to this list soon.

 

 

[VWatchie]

On 4/25/2022 at 4:14 PM, Paul80 said:

so doubt a jewel replacement will be an issue for this tool either

You're right about that Paul. It works flawlessly also when replacing jewels. BTW great thread and initiative!

I have this Chinese Horia jewelling tool clone and I'm more than happy with it. As far as I'm aware the only problem is that QC isn't 100 % perfect so don't expect absolute perfection. I have written about this previously. See the below link:

 

[Paul80]

You had me worried there for a minute.

Just sat here checking every single one of the 24 sets, top and bottom and luckily all of mine are on spec and fit fine.

The CNC man must have been on the ball when they made mine

[VWatchie]

15 hours ago, Paul80 said:

The CNC man must have been on the ball when they made mine

Yep, it happens, but be aware that the CNC man isn't always! I've read about other minor glitches in QC for this tool, but hey, for the money, it's a no-brainer.

[GuyMontag]

16 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Yep, it happens, but be aware that the CNC man isn't always! I've read about other minor glitches in QC for this tool, but hey, for the money, it's a no-brainer.

Out of curiosity, if you had a few pushers/anvils that were an issue, could you easily replace them? Are they expensive?

[Paul80]

This would be one issue with buying these Chinese tools, they sell a full set but nothing on their own, so if you wanted one pusher you may have to go looking for a Swiss version, mind you new they want almost as much for one pusher the the Chinese are asking for the whole set of pushers and the Anvil so it would be cheaper to just buy another Chinese set.

£99 for a full set including Anvil from China or £935 just for the pushers from Cousins is a no brainer to me 

[Charette]

On 3/18/2022 at 10:44 AM, Paul80 said:

So here we go with the first tool in this series

The obquous mainspring winder ser.

This set came from Aliexpress and the price seems to fluctuate around £150

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002838742309.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef1802uk2ABx

A set of 20 winders with lrft and right hand sizes plus one handle.

With this set the important Arburs are all steel and they are sold steel throught the range even some of the bergeon ones use a brass core with steel sleeve on the larger sizes, these are all steel.

Construction and machining is all to a high standard 

Now to the handle which is often a point of critisism in these Chinese sets as there is often only a right handed handle included which can make using the left handed winders a trifle fiddly which is why Bergeon supply two handle in their kits.

The handle in this kit is actually cut for both left and right hand use so only one is needed.

So on the whole a high quality tool that works well and well worth the average asking price of around £150.

Photos below, more tools to follow.

 

Can I ask, as a beginner - I know these winders are movement specific, but can I expect they will fit other barrels 'close enough'? I understand Bergeon has a generic winder set. Of course, as a hobbyist I am not considering these but I would try out these Chinese versions if someone can educate me. I see myself taking in random vintage watches, based on price, so not focusing on anything specific. Basically, do I like the look?

I have bought numerous small items for almost pennies so far from AliExpress for the hobby and have been happy with them. I have especially been impressed by a brand of tweezers, I will share the items in the future.

Thanks all.

[HectorLooi]

I have a set of these Chinese winders. Not the most intelligent design and not that useful. 

I recently serviced an ETA 2836 and picked up the winder meant for the 2836 and found that the barrel and arbor fitted quite nicely but the winding direction was wrong. They could have used a bidirectional design for the arbor or at least get the direction correct.

I have done so many movements that no winder seem to fit. So learning how to wind a spring by hand is essential. Unfortunately, small barrels are extremely difficult to wind and unbelievably painful on the fingers.