Square drive for pocket watch stem

[kibbler]

I have a number of pocket watches that I'm working on, where can I get a square driver for actuating the stem while the movement is out of its case?

What is the name for this tool, and are they readily available?  I could probably file one out of an old screwdriver, but I'd just as soon spend a couple bucks to save me the trouble.  

It doesn't need to be a $100 Swiss-made tool

[oldhippy]

Do you mean a pocket watch sleeve wrench like this? Any good watch tool suppliers will be able to help you. 

 

[KarlvonKoln]

Or maybe a watchmaker's bench key?  Are you needing to test the setting or winding function of a movement that has the female section of a two-piece stem - but not wanting to remove the other part of the stem from the case to do it?  If that's the kind of movement and case you have, then you need a bench key.  It will have a squared end, they come in different sizes, and it will interface with the socket on the watch movement and functions in place of the stem and crown.

[kibbler]

On 2/27/2022 at 6:47 AM, KarlvonKoln said:

Or maybe a watchmaker's bench key?  Are you needing to test the setting or winding function of a movement that has the female section of a two-piece stem - but not wanting to remove the other part of the stem from the case to do it?  If that's the kind of movement and case you have, then you need a bench key.  It will have a squared end, they come in different sizes, and it will interface with the socket on the watch movement and functions in place of the stem and crown.

Yes, this is exactly what I was referring to. Thanks!  Do you know where I could possibly find one?  The only thing that turned up in my initial search are keys that have the female end for key-wind watches.

[oldhippy]

Any good supplies of watch and clock materiel will be able to help you out.  

[kibbler]

I didn't have much luck searching for one to purchase.  This will have to do for now, made from a cheapo screwdriver.  not quite centered, but works well enough

[oldhippy]

I still don't know what it is you are looking for. 

[KarlvonKoln]

Here are pictures of two of mine.  I got mine from Dave's Watch Parts. But they turn up on Ebay too.  They have the different-sized squared ends.  The six-prong works for most watches from 0s to 12s. The double ended one does most 16s and 18 s.  I have a couple other double ended ones for the other odd sizes.

I don't know what else to call them other than a form of "bench key".  But these kind are just for two-piece stem sockets.

Congrats on making your own!

[KarlvonKoln]

They also made some that look like sleeve wrenches, and so sellers on Ebay were mis-labeling them.  But sleeve wrenches are like a tube-kind-of-key.  They take the sleeve out of a pendant tube as part of removing out the positive/male end of a two piece stem & crown.
They can also adjust the depth of the sleeve, thus adjusting the depth that the male part of the stem reaches into the female socket.  There were times when I had a pocket watch with a stem system like this, and it had issues with moving between setting and winding.  Most often, I solved it by simply adjusting the sleeve depth, which had gotten a little off over time.   

Edited March 4, 2022 by KarlvonKoln

[oldhippy]

The sleeve wrench or sleeve key is what I posted a photo of the other day. I never heard if that was the correct tool. 

[JohnR725]

On 2/25/2022 at 3:20 PM, kibbler said:

I have a number of pocket watches that I'm working on, where can I get a square driver for actuating the stem while the movement is out of its case?

The square drive toward you're looking for is called the bench key. Typically they'll come in sets like picture of three that I have. That will correspond to most of your American pocket watches and conveniently  they work on European watches.

Also a picture out of the Elgin school training handout of not sure what was actually called but this is the page on making your own

Then from vintage tool catalog example of a Friday at types. They also have the other type for holding onto the square of a key wind when you don't have the specific key. Then it looks like from the description some other keys must've had both one and was Mail and the other end is female which I didn't know existed.

The problem with finding these brand-new is that they're not really useful for modern watches. It's hard enough to get modern parts for modern watches let alone get tools for a vintage watches. That unfortunately means you're at the mercy of the eBay sellers who seem to think that their rare and they should be really expensive.

[LittleWatchShop]

There are a couple of sets on ebay right now.  Already over $100.

 

[KarlvonKoln]

ALREADY OVER $100 U.S. FOR A SET???  Holy Crow!  I must've gotten mine for a song then.  I don't think I paid anywhere near that for all of mine.

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, KarlvonKoln said:

I must've gotten mine for a song then.

Happily, I inherited mine!!

[kibbler]

I snagged a pair of them on ebay last week for $35, and there's a set of 4 listed right now for $70

They key words for anyone else looking is "stem wind bench key"

Here's mine - there's some pitting on the shaft, but the tool ends are in good shape:

[mbwatch]

Okay! "stem wind bench key" it is. I came up on the thread with the same question, what on earth tool do I get to wind uncased American stem wind movements, finding only square drive female ended keys. And today I do see plenty of sub-$30 options on ebay.

[JohnR725]

9 hours ago, mbwatch said:

finding only square drive female ended keys

The problem is as soon as you use the word key in relationship to timepiece like a watch or even clock you get a very specific thing which is not what you want. Then if the bench keys came out of the box there in the miscellaneous tools and that's where you'd find them and whoever selling them has no idea what those are and then not going to list them. But I do curiosity I just went through eBay looking at miscellaneous vintage tools and not very promising. I think I might've seen Two of them but they're really hard to tell the pictures and there were lots of other stuff most of which I didn't consider it worthwhile. That was the problem with a lot some of the lots have interesting things but not for the price and not because most of it is not very interesting or usable or anything else.

 

[mbwatch]

I did find some non-watchmaker screwdrivers (regular resin handled tools) with square ends but I'm unsure if the driving ends would be long enough to reach the 8mm or so into a pocket watch, and also if they could be sufficiently demagnetized since they are explicitly manufactured to be magnetic.

[markr]

I use an old stem cut the tip off and put it in a pin vice.

[LittleWatchShop]

5 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

That was the problem with a lot some of the lots have interesting things but not for the price and not because most of it is not very interesting or usable or anything else

Very true.  I have gotten a few and perhaps paid a little more than I should and later discovered some tools in the bunch that I didnt know I needed.  Hit and miss...

[wizardmaster]

Can anyone tell me about this stem? Does that piece of stem need to be removed ? Or is there a crown that instead of screws on  or what?