Seiko 7S26 / NH26 - Rectangular Diafix cap jewels spring

[MaGa]

Hi All, 

in my first attempt of lubricating the jewels and lowering down agin the spring, i mess it up. The spring literally disappeared, I'm not sure where wanted to fly :).
Where i can source this diafix from? Anyone can help is super much appreciated. Thanks 

[jdm]

8 minutes ago, MaGa said:

Where i can source this diafix from? Anyone can help is super much appreciated. Thanks 

From a donor watch. The jewels on the main bridge are not to be removed when cleaning, as the spring is too small to be refitted without trouble, especially for beginners. Next time you embark in doing some watch work, even it if seems easy to you or videos make it seem easy, is better to ask here for advice first. 

[Nucejoe]

Let a magnet find the spring for you.

[jdm]

4 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Let a magnet find the spring for you.

I'm happy that you never lost one of these particular springs. Otherwise you would known.

[Nibbler]

I am convinced these springs were invented by the devil. There are videos of watchmakers who have created tools that will remove and replace these little buggers. 

My take away after launching one off into the ether...do not remove them.

Matt

[Nucejoe]

 Wouldn't hurt to send a strong magnet after it, worst case senario be,  its totally antimagnetic as Jdm declared. 

 

25 minutes ago, Nibbler said:

My take away after launching one off into the ether...do not remove them.

Practice remiving them in inside a ziploc bag, 

Leaving the jewel setting unchecked is not good watch repair.  

[Nibbler]

Given the level of watchmaking skills and the tools at hand one is faced with the reality of what can be done without damage and what repairs are likely to cause damage or loss. For someone starting out the best advice might be to start out on larger parts to build your skills and then try something more finicky like these diafix springs.

Not all of us here are experts and can effect a repair at this level.

Since this is a learning forum maybe someone can show us their technique at removing and replacing these springs and they tools they recommend to do it.

Nucejoe, are you up for it?

Matt

[jdm]

16 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

 Wouldn't hurt to send a strong magnet after it, worst case senario be,  its totally antimagnetic as Jdm declared.

I didn't said they are amagnetic, but that are so small that will happily baffle the most exhaustive searches no matter the use of magnets, swiffer brooms, filtered vacuum cleaners,  etc.

 

16 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Practice remiving them in inside a ziploc bag

Again, this shows that proabably you never handled them. These are not  balance springs. If you want to understand the experience procure a scrap movement, and try to refit them (removing is not a big deal with rodico safety) with or without a clear bag. Also let us know how it goes about dropping oil for one third of the diameter in the center of the end stone. 

 

16 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Leaving the jewel setting unchecked is not good watch repair.  

Not unchecked and not even uncared. The bridge is washed and dried, the jewels carefully inspected, and the pivots oiled right before refitting it. 

[mikepilk]

I agree with @Nibbler and @jdm - if you don't have the skills yet, leave the smaller ones in place.

I really struggled the first time I refitted them. The blob of oil in the centre of the jewel end up all over the place.

I can now refit them easily enough (usually) but do it under a stereo microscope, and I don't oil the jewel before fitting the spring. As I don't have an automatic oiler, I sharpened an old oiler to a point which I use to feed oil through the jewel hole. Capillary action takes the oil through the hole. I then have to clean the hole side with some Rodico. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by mikepilk
typo

[Plato]

On 1/28/2022 at 11:34 AM, MaGa said:

Where i can source this diafix from?

There could be something in this selection:

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/shockproof-springs-wristwatch

just a guess though.

[jdm]

1 hour ago, mikepilk said:

I can now refit them easily enough (usually) but do it under a stereo microscope

Have you tried a properly sized plastic tube. Similar to what I have shown below with pegwood, but smaller and more precise.

 

 

[mikepilk]

3 hours ago, jdm said:

Have you tried a properly sized plastic tube. Similar to what I have shown below with pegwood, but smaller and more precise.

That's a good idea, I'll look for some suitable tube. Like you, I have some shaped pegwood for the larger ones. Working under the microscope I find that using two pairs of tweezers works well enough. But one slip, and ping 

[Nucejoe]

On 1/28/2022 at 10:20 PM, Nibbler said:

Nucejoe, are you up for it?

Matt

Oh sorry for my late resopnse I noticed your post just now.

Ziploc bag ends losing the pingers, sometimes I spread a large sheet of plastic on carpeted floor  helps to retrive the fiddly parts and magnet ofcourse is instrumental for metal parts, didn't know these diafix springs wont coopperate with magnets or whatever.

So far as tricks for removing, I use tweezers, have no dedicated tool, wish I could locally find a tool for kif trio, to buy.

Usually work on movements to which I have plenty spare parts or have several of same calibers plus scraps, so a part pinging off wont stop my work and the lost part finds my magnet sooner or later.

Its an endless learning process, shouldn't look for magical approaches. 

Regards

 

 

[anilv]

I use plastic bags when fitting these... even the bloody balance ones are a pain.

Anilv

[kwoktock]

Did you find the part? 

[SCOTTY]

Coated Paper Clip Method For Diashock Springs

 Straighten out 1 end of a color coated paper clip. Using wire strippers on the straightened end like you're going to strip off some insulation, about 1/4"

up from the end, squeeze the strippers & pull the color coating about 1/16" to 1/8" past the metal end of the clip. The paper clip now serves as a tool to twist the spring in or out of place.

Edited March 23, 2023 by SCOTTY

[kd8tzc]

On 3/23/2023 at 3:43 PM, SCOTTY said:

Coated Paper Clip Method For Diashock Springs

 Straighten out 1 end of a color coated paper clip. Using wire strippers on the straightened end like you're going to strip off some insulation, about 1/4"

up from the end, squeeze the strippers & pull the color coating about 1/16" to 1/8" past the metal end of the clip. The paper clip now serves as a tool to twist the spring in or out of place.

Do you have a picture (and a close up if the end)?

[kd8tzc]

On 1/29/2022 at 8:43 AM, mikepilk said:

I agree with @Nibbler and @jdm - if you don't have the skills yet, leave the smaller ones in place.

I really struggled the first time I refitted them. The blob of oil in the centre of the jewel end up all over the place.

I can now refit them easily enough (usually) but do it under a stereo microscope, and I don't oil the jewel before fitting the spring. As I don't have an automatic oiler, I sharpened an old oiler to a point which I use to feed oil through the jewel hole. Capillary action takes the oil through the hole. I then have to clean the hole side with some Rodico. 

So how do you do that when it is the upper pivot for the balance wheel?  Just move the balance wheel and spring out of the way?

[Nucejoe]

3 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

So how do you do that when it is the upper pivot for the balance wheel?  Just move the balance wheel and spring out of the way?

This is certainly the safest approach, eliminates the risk of damaging  the balance or H/S, furthurmore you have more control in removing the shock spring. If memory serves, this spring doesn't break as easy as the lyre type. 

 

[SCOTTY]

21 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

Do you have a picture (and a close up if the end)?

Well I lost mine !!  

I did another 1 quick & took pics so you'll get the idea. 

 

 

[kd8tzc]

Thanks... that make a ton more sense now.  So you keep the plastic/rubber on the paperclip, but it extends past the metal.  This then allows it to form to the spring I Take it... great idea when I get the guts to take the Seiko spring off.

[LittleWatchShop]

I made a pegwood tool for Kif Trior springs.  It would work on this as well...similar to the video.

Take a piece of pegwood chucked on a lathe and cut a concave end.  Then bevel it.  The paperclip idea should work as well--clever.

[SCOTTY]

I forgot to add:

Don't twist on the pliers or the clip while pulling down on the coating. You dont want the seperated coating loose on the clip metal.

It might cause slipping while you turn the clip to remove the Seiko spring.

[kd8tzc]

19 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

This is certainly the safest approach, eliminates the risk of damaging  the balance or H/S, furthurmore you have more control in removing the shock spring. If memory serves, this spring doesn't break as easy as the lyre type. 

 

Okay, so I am still confused here.  You are saying that if I am not comfortable removing the shock spring from the Seiko, then turn the balance wheel assembly over, and move the wheel out of the way stretching the spring (gently)?  The problem that I am seeing is that it sure doesn't leave a whole lot of room to get the oilier between the coils of the balance wheel springs so I can get it to the hole for the pivot.  Maybe I am being too cautious of how far I stretch the spring.

[Nucejoe]

2 hours ago, kd8tzc said:

Okay, so I am still confused here.  You are saying that if I am not comfortable removing the shock spring from the Seiko, then turn the balance wheel assembly over, and move the wheel out of the way stretching the spring (gently)?  The problem that I am seeing is that it sure doesn't leave a whole lot of room to get the oilier between the coils of the balance wheel springs so I can get it to the hole for the pivot.  Maybe I am being too cautious of how far I stretch the spring.

No not exactly what I was trying to say, 

 Practice on scraps to gain the confidence  and dexterity  to do it right  do it once.  You wouldn't know the condition of end stones and hole jewels before  removing  and inspecting  them.

Best to detach the balance from the cock, you then can remove the shock spring to check/ clean / peg  end stone and hole jewel and give them a bath in ultrasonic, so you can be sure things are Ok in the setting, so to have one less fault to wonder about in case  timegrapher shows low amplitude. 

Good luck