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I'm starting a restoration of a Rolex--or is it a fake?


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I don't know if this is a good place for this question or not. If you know of a better place, please direct me...

I acquired what was sold as a Rolex Datejust Oyster Perpetual (36mm). It looks like someone dug it up from a landfill, so it isn't in the best of shape. Surprisingly, I wound it and it is running. I haven't put it on the timegrapher yet.

I'm just starting out with watch repair and restoration, and the price I got was worth the gamble.

Now, how do I determine if it is real? I haven't opened it yet because it didn't open with the rubber ball method and I don't have any Rolex-specific tools. I will likely superglue a nut to the case back. I've had success with this on another watch.

From the case alone, there are a few red flags:

1. The bezel appears to have been a plated base metal, and the plating is completely gone. Did Rolex use plating on their cases?

2. The case shows places where it was worn so much there is base metal showing through. Same question as #1.

3. The bracelet has a lot of corrosion (especially on the bottom) and apparently used to be two-toned but barely is anymore. Again, did Rolex sell plated bracelets?

4. There appears to be a glob of glue on the Rolex crown at 12:00 on the dial, although that could have been a poor attempt at a DIY project.

5. One index has come off and is floating around inside.

I can supply photos, and in a couple of days I should have the case back off so I can see the movement. But I wanted to see if we already know enough to call this a fake. Obviously, I hope I didn't lose money, but it wasn't much, so I won't be heartbroken.

 

Thanks all!

 

 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, FreelanceAstronaut said:

But I wanted to see if we already know enough to call this a fake.

I think this kind of discussion can be meaningful only with pictures posted, no matter how much of an eyesore these can be. It seems anyway as if you know already what's the predictable outcome.

 

51 minutes ago, FreelanceAstronaut said:

Obviously, I hope I didn't lose money, but it wasn't much, so I won't be heartbroken

If not much is like Euro 150 or less, be reassured that you have a fake, because nobody sells a genuine big brand watch for that little (or even 5 times as much), too good to be true etc. BTW in my opinion even Euro 10 is too much for a fake watch, and there are better ways to spend money for learning watch repair.

And if you paid more than that, and bought without giving proven authenticity any importance then your indeed is a costly and risky gambling, you may as well go play the casino where odds would be more in your favor.

 

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37 minutes ago, FreelanceAstronaut said:

The case shows places where it was worn so much there is base metal showing through. Same question as #1.

I'm pretty sure the usp for rolex is that they use a high grade of stainless steel for their cases so it doesn't sound good... add some pictures. 

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Here are the photos. I'm convinced it is fake now. But I got this with other watches. I like a couple of the others, although one of them was an old Hamilton and when I noticed the lume I got out my geiger counter and sure enough... I'm not sure what I'll do with that one.

I'll glue a nut to it tonight and let the glue cure for 24 hours and then we can see what's inside.

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I do not know how old the Datejust is.  Does anyone here know if Rolex ever used plated brass for their cases in the past, before going with stainless steel.  I haven't yet heard that they did so, but I have only ever seen more modern Rolexes.  I saw the wear, and the brassing on the case and became apprehensive.  Looking further made me doubt even more.
If I had to guess, I would call it fake.  

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11 minutes ago, KarlvonKoln said:

I do not know how old the Datejust is.  Does anyone here know if Rolex ever used plated brass for their cases in the past, before going with stainless steel.  I haven't yet heard that they did so, but I have only ever seen more modern Rolexes.  I saw the wear, and the brassing on the case and became apprehensive.  Looking further made me doubt even more.
If I had to guess, I would call it fake.  

This is a fake for sure and a cheap one.

 Naturally we know the stuff thats marketted in our locality, my neck of the woods is filled with such fakes, whereas I have never seen an actual Patek phillipe. 

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On 1/22/2022 at 6:16 PM, FreelanceAstronaut said:

You are correct! It actually is a snap on back. They weren't even trying on the movement!

 

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Yep, I thought that's what we would see.  Cheap, fragile, anonymous Chinese automatic.  I've seen a few of those.  And a couple times it made for an awkward and uncomfortable situation, as the owner had been assuming for some time that he had the genuine article.  There's no easy way to tell someone their treasured watch is a fake, and that parts would be nearly impossible to come by if anything broke. Sometimes, a bargain is too "good" to be true.
Edit: WAIT A MINUTE!  THIS ONE *IS* MARKED!
H&L Inc.  I may have to see if I can find out more about that.  This is the first one I've seen with any marking of any kind.  How did I miss that before?  Thanks for posting this picture!

Edited by KarlvonKoln
discovery
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On 1/26/2022 at 11:28 PM, TimpanogosSlim said:

It's good to have some worthless movements for practice

Yes, this is true.  I have a couple that I save for parts, so that if someone finds out their Tag or Rolex (or whatever) is a fake with one of these inside and still wants me to repair it anyway (which has happened) I have a potential source of parts.  Because so far, every unmarked Chinese auto I've seen has looked exactly the same, with the same measurements as I recall, so I at least have parts to try out and see if  they will work as replacements.  I've had almost zero luck digging up that kind of movement anywhere else, since it has no name.

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I actually managed to return this one for a refund.

I like having movements for practice, too. I've purchased a lot of 5 or 6 watches for cheap from eBay. There are only 2 watches in there I'm actually interested in, but I've been using the others to learn from. My skills are improving, but I did manage to have a spring fly away yesterday--never to be seen again.

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1 hour ago, KarlvonKoln said:

Edit: WAIT A MINUTE!  THIS ONE *IS* MARKED!
H&L Inc.  I may have to see if I can find out more about that.  This is the first one I've seen with any marking of any kind.  How did I miss that before?  Thanks for posting this picture!

DUDE!   I found out something!  There may be no model numbers for these *BUT* they are variations on the DG2812 and the DG2813, which you can get on Esslinger.com.  The major difference between the DG28 series, and FreelanceAstronaut's one from H&L Inc. is that the H&L only has 7 jewels - whereas the DG28 series have 22 jewels.  Outside of that, they are interchangeable.
So, if worse came to worse, and I had a customer who knew they had a fake, but wanted their watch running again anyway, I would have a whole new movement to put in it if too many parts were broken.
Amazing what some pics will do!

https://www.esslinger.com/watch-movement-dg2812-mechanical-movements/

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