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A Seiko shows strange behavior


UhrTobi
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Hello,

I'm new here since a views hours and there is already my first problem I'm not able to solve. I did my first practice on a Seiko 7S26C movement. It is from a watch of a verry good friend. He was verry unsatisfied with its performance and told me, that the watch goes some times to fast, other times to slow. A timegrapher analytics shows this, too. In the same orientation the watch fluctuates between ca. +25s/day and -30s/day within a view minutes without any disturbance from outside. It had got a verry low amplitude of about 156°. He gave it to me just to practice. But now I have a strong motivation to fix the problem. I dissassembled it following Marks verry helpfull videos on youtube, cleaned and lubricated it and put it together two times. It still works nevertheless 😄. And the amplitude is now sometimes over 200° but suddenly it goes back to 180°. I could regulated the beat error down to ca. 0.1ms and it goes to max. 0.6ms depending on orientation. But the amplitude is still not stable and the accuracy is still fluctuating. The hair spring looks good ans all bearings seems to be clean. And so I can't guess, what the problem is. I would be verry glad if someone could give me some assotiations how I could fix the problem.

Many thanks an best regards🙂

Tobi

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2 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

I am far from qualified or expert. And there's a whole thread here about mainspring lubrication that would be a better place to read and discuss on the issue. 

I am not well versed in when a modern white alloy mainspring in a hand-wound watch should or shouldn't be lubricated. 

That's an interesting quotation above? Even though you're not versed in the subject of mainsprings or lubrication you're telling me that I wasted everyone's time? Strangely enough I agree with you but not for the same reason.

3 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

"sticky" is probably not a concern for any brand new grease.

Well I'll still disagree I don't actually know if that lubrication is sticky or not. I do know one modern mainsprings you're not supposed to lubricate at all and it could be a contributing factor to the problems were studying as to whether or not it's the only problem I doubt it.

3 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

My main thesis, fwiw, is that the mainspring is not where i would focus my attention if this movement was on my bench.

Tell you what I'll give you an assignment to do? As you're showing better insight into the problems of the watch than the original posting person or even maybe everybody else answering questions? Go back to page 1 read the entire discussion and where would you begin?

The problem where having is and I might've already said this somewhere above so I'm apologizing for wasting people's time is? Where's the problem seems like a simple question but this is watch repair there is not necessarily simple answers. It's hard to tell in the discussion what's the original problem of a watch? Have there been any problems introduced by the original posting person who has no idea what they're doing. This is why pointed out bad lubrication on the mainspring could be an issue. So we basically have lost our way and as another new person wider to reread the entire discussion and point out where you would luck because I agree the discussion appears to now be a waste of time for one thing were wasting time discussing my lubrication concerns which may or might not be helping the original posting person.

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Hiw long would you say it stays at 180?  and how long is duration of 200 amplitude?

Just about a view secounds at 200°

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Then further in the video he demagnetized is the watch I wonder if that's necessary?

My demagnetiser was deliverted today. Of course I used it at once and the amplitude goes a little higher up to ca. 190° (some short time up to 204°) and it stays more stable on all orientations. A little step, but a step at all...

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That's an interesting quotation above? Even though you're not versed in the subject of mainsprings or lubrication you're telling me that I wasted everyone's time? Strangely enough I agree with you but not for the same reason.

Please stay calm. For me all the content here is highly interesting and verry helpful. To this point I 've learned a lot - eaven if there will be no final solution of my problem. 

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...or might not be helping the original posting person.

For me as a beginner this may no help for my secific problem, but I learn with every thread a little more and it is verry interestimg for me to read, eaven if there are controverse statments.

Edited by UhrTobi
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2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

That's an interesting quotation above? Even though you're not versed in the subject of mainsprings or lubrication you're telling me that I wasted everyone's time? Strangely enough I agree with you but not for the same reason.

Well I'll still disagree I don't actually know if that lubrication is sticky or not. I do know one modern mainsprings you're not supposed to lubricate at all and it could be a contributing factor to the problems were studying as to whether or not it's the only problem I doubt it.

Tell you what I'll give you an assignment to do? As you're showing better insight into the problems of the watch than the original posting person or even maybe everybody else answering questions? Go back to page 1 read the entire discussion and where would you begin?

The problem where having is and I might've already said this somewhere above so I'm apologizing for wasting people's time is? Where's the problem seems like a simple question but this is watch repair there is not necessarily simple answers. It's hard to tell in the discussion what's the original problem of a watch? Have there been any problems introduced by the original posting person who has no idea what they're doing. This is why pointed out bad lubrication on the mainspring could be an issue. So we basically have lost our way and as another new person wider to reread the entire discussion and point out where you would luck because I agree the discussion appears to now be a waste of time for one thing were wasting time discussing my lubrication concerns which may or might not be helping the original posting person.

 

It was not my intention to imply that you were wasting peoples time. I was trying to participate in the diagnosis, nothing more. 

Mainspring lubrication appears to be one of the complicated and potentially contentious subjects in watchmaking. I have seen recommendations to not open the barrel at all. To put the spring in dry but dab a few dots of oil on top before closing it up. To grease it between fingers. To grease it in the crook of a small fold of watch paper. Pretty sure I've seen Mark grease a spring between fingers and remove the excess from the edges with rodico after winding and after installing in the barrel. I'm sure I've also seen mark install a white alloy mainspring for an automatically wound watch totally dry, but with four or five dabs of grease on the inside walls of the barrel. 

And this reminds me of the long thread on pallet fork pivots, which we never lubricate, except when we used to and sometimes still do. I recall seeing that two certified watchmakers who both studied at Neuchâtel swore that they received distinctly differing instructions. 

As for my assignment: 

It is apparent that the 7S26C is experiencing periodically higher resistance to delivery of power. 

If we knew some details about the frequency and duration of the period of higher resistance, we could combine this with knowledge of the movement's design to guess where it might be, because we know how many times per hour each wheel turns. 

This is a shortcoming of the otherwise quite darling LCD timegrapher. Sometimes it is better to have a log over a long duration. 

Otto Frei offers a printer attachment for their branded version of the Weishi. I wonder if some clever hackers could implement logging through the USB port which is marked "Calibration". I wonder if i can determine how to connect the Weishi microphone to one of the XLR inputs on my audio workstation for this purpose. I wonder if the MEMS type lavalier mic i picked up at a surplus sale is sensitive enough to use with open-source timegrapher software -- really interesting piece of tech, looks like a flat piece of ABS plastic on the end of a wire to me. 

Under high magnification i have discovered things like partially corroded wheel teeth with little flakes of metal oxides hanging off them at odd angles. This would certainly increase resistance while those teeth are engaged. I've discovered that the bottom pivot of an escape wheel had a subtle Z shape to it. I've found cogs that had some kind of hardened emulsified grease or something embedded in a few of the grooves. 

Please understand that i am decades into a career in quality assurance. It's not ego, it's habit. 

Edited by TimpanogosSlim
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5 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

lubrication

Lubrication is a problem in watch repair because watch repair has spanned a very long time. The technical sheets the books the bulletins whatever people look at have spanned a long time. People embrace a certain book author as their God and embrace whatever they said but that might've been written 50 or 100 years ago. The factories keep changing things continuously just because they can I guess. Then there is the missing documentation?

Thinking of lubrication follow the link download number 40 and anything else that looks interesting

https://www.cousinsuk.com/document/search?SearchString=Working

So here's a nice lubrication guide and is at all in the guide no what's missing well number 67 is missing which is amusing document because it doesn't really cover lubricating the mainspring is not lubricated at all. But it's not in the lubrication guide it's in a separate guide titled recycling mainspring barrels. Then what about surface treatment is that necessary? That's also in another separate guide. Sometimes it's in the cleaning guide sometimes it's not.

If you're ever at a lecture with her lecturing on lubrication and you corner of the instructor Dell refer you to the tech sheet but once again does the tech sheet cover everything? It's only relatively recent times were the tech sheets start to cover surface treatment. It's why companies like Eta to get away with insanely thin lubrication's for the setting parts where personally I would prefer grease they are using oil but their surface treating. Omega's been surface treating since the 50s and yet it almost never appears in anything. Even companies like Eta now talk about it did they mention that they surface treat their balance staffs? That's in the manufacturing information sheets not the technical guide.

7 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

And this reminds me of the long thread on pallet fork pivots, which we never lubricate, except when we used to and sometimes still do. I recall seeing that two certified watchmakers who both studied at Neuchâtel swore that they received distinctly differing instructions. 

Out of curiosity where did you see in this discussion?

 

5 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

It is apparent that the 7S26C is experiencing periodically higher resistance to delivery of power. 

If we knew some details about the frequency and duration of the period of higher resistance, we could combine this with knowledge of the movement's design to guess where it might be, because we know how many times per hour each wheel turns. 

May be?

Minor disclaimer before we go down the rabbit hole?

Typically for people new to watch repair there is going to be a problem. Biggest problem is it's the basic things that will trip you up. It's all the things that you don't know and you don't even grasp that you don't know them. It's of things that you can't see it's also where getting a microscope doesn't help. Making something bag if you can't grasp what it is you need to look at what you're trying to see doesn't help at all. So simplistically it's probably something pretty darn simple but if you don't have the expertise to grasp this simple task which you don't because you don't have the experience yet then we can go looking for the obscure things maybe learn something along the way,?

The above quote assumes something it assumes that it fits the narrative maybe it doesn't fit the narrative in which case this will not work. We need something we need something from the old days when the manufacturer grasped that the watchmaker had no idea what a timing machine is So they did a decent manual. It's interesting from the manual as this is a transistorized machine and it's the same manual for the vacuum tube machine that they did years later so it's a good manual.

http://www.historictimekeepers.com/documents/Micromat.pdf

PDF page 15 what is it talking about? Page 16 shows you the wheels gives you time frame your watch won't be exactly the same but it will be close.  if you really needed no yes to do the math to figure out what the timeframe is for things. Then continuing on the page 17 the vantage of paper tape you might build a C trends? Now notice I use the word might be able to I've have some experience with this and sometimes it's really hard to see stuff especially when it's back much closer to the mainspring barrel this is where we need something different.

I've attached a PDF Page 9 titled 2.2.2 Display Mode Trace. Their demonstration pictures aren't the best but you get us started and I'll see if I can find a better image to make a point.You notice there showing initially a really short time span a lot of variation all watches will have variations like this. Gear train's gears have power fluctuations all gears do the watch will never typically show them including typically on a timing machine as they get averaged out. On the next page you can see the amplitude of the time fluctuation this is what gets averaged out you'll ever see. Notice this is a reasonably high grade watch because the fluctuations are really small if you run one of these on a Rolex watch still be really small or Hamilton 992B has a really tight timing like this other watches they can start to look much worse and yet it's not exactly an issue because it's just the quality of the watch

Other things useful in a really expensive timing machine is the oscilloscope mode they show it on page 11 although? The next page where it shows it like the 400 ms setting the timing machine that I use at work as this Senate 400 ms it's better because you can see the spacing between the escapement sounds. This is where if you had a hairspring rubbing issue providing it would actually make a noise of its gently pushing on the balance wheel it doesn't always show up. But just because you see a noise on the oscilloscope doesn't mean it's easy to figure out where that noise is coming from.

Then another example of what the time trace future looks like image attached. The amplitude probably isn't right because the lift angle wasn't 52°. But here you can see the effect of the center wheel meshing with the mainspring barrel that's what the longer issue is. The faster one is one of the other wheels. This is a situation where this would average out on a timing machine you would never normally see it.

5 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

I wonder if some clever hackers could implement logging through the USB port which is marked "Calibration".

Yes it looks like a USB port what exactly does it do?

 

So I would suggest running on buying the witschi timing machine how much could that possibly cost you? Then some of the software machines they can either make I can the discussion group for others will do similar things. But doesn't get us any closer to finding the problem?

In the absence of all of these newfangled fancy things if you look at the that's the original posting person if he looks at your timing machine and the graphical display is too hard to look Look at the numbers are they going up and down? If they are looking to watch and see how fast the going up and down and see if they correspond to an actual repeating pattern. If they're not repeating then what is the problem?

I would go back and visually check everything make sure all the pivots are nice and clean and shiny make sure all the holes look like they're nice and clean make sure all the jewels are nice and flat. I don't think I've seen it yet but if you put enough pressure on things you probably not the jewel out of alignment that would give a binding issue. Go back to the mainspring barrel how much side shake you have? I don't remember on this Seiko but did they jewel the main plate for the barrel if not check that the bushings or whatever are still around and you don't have too much side shake. One of the problems that pops up on seven jewel watches is the train will spin nice without the pallet fork again but as soon as the pallet forks in and there's pressure the holes are out around and things will bind up. Everything is jewels in this watch except at the barrel and it's possible you of where they are.

On the other hand it could be as simple as a proper cleaning and something resembling reasonably close lubrication. But at least the watches running. Versus buying a broken watch on eBay thinking you're going to fix up the first time and usually people give up and move on because not every watch can be fixed but the Seiko t least it's running and it should do better than what it's doing now.

Snapshot_SN_00396_44.png

Test and measuring technology mechanical watches.pdf

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If we knew some details about the frequency and duration of the period of higher resistance, we could combine this with knowledge of the movement's design to guess where it might be, because we know how many times per hour each wheel turns. 

Verry good idea!

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I wonder if some clever hackers could implement logging through the USB port which is marked "Calibration". I wonder if i can determine how to connect the Weishi microphone to one of the XLR inputs on my audio workstation for this purpose. I wonder if the MEMS type lavalier mic i picked up at a surplus sale is sensitive enough to use with open-source timegrapher software -- really interesting piece of tech, looks like a flat piece of ABS plastic on the end of a wire to me. 

Thats on my to-do-list, too. As a physicist it would not be the first protocol I've hacked - but this needs a lot of time. I'm working on this😉. Until reaching this solution, I could try to do a long time protocol by a lot of screenshots from timegrapher. I will try something like thast this eavening.

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I've discovered that the bottom pivot of an escape wheel had a subtle Z shape to it. I've found cogs that had some kind of hardened emulsified grease or something embedded in a few of the grooves. 

I see, I have to do an ather dissasembling to examine all whees verry more detailed. I will do so. 🙂

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Please understand that i am decades into a career in quality assurance. It's not ego, it's habit. 

I am very grateful for all these tips!

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Many thanks for thins links. Verry interesting!

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So simplistically it's probably something pretty darn simple but if you don't have the expertise to grasp this simple task which you don't because you don't have the experience yet then we can go looking for the obscure things maybe learn something along the way,?

That's exactly why I came to here🙂

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The amplitude probably isn't right because the lift angle wasn't 52°.

I fount that the 7S26 movement has a lift angle off 53°. And I set it like this on timegrapher. I'm afraid the amplitude is in fact that low. 🥺

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I would go back and visually check everything make sure all the pivots are nice and clean and shiny make sure all the holes look like they're nice and clean make sure all the jewels are nice and flat.

...

check that the bushings or whatever are still around and you don't have too much side shake. 

I will definitely do that 🙂

Thans for the plot!

 

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14 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

I was trying to participate in the diagnosis, nothing more.

That is fine, but please understand that input coming from a professional watchmaker (not me, but at least I have fought various times exactly what the OP reports) with thousands of services and repairs under his belt means that experience is talking not just speculation, and it's normal that are looked as having a different authority weight.

 

14 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

It is apparent that the 7S26C is experiencing periodically higher resistance to delivery of power.

Actually isn't so apparent to me. When a mov.t basically pass the "free train" test like the OP's did, we know that at least most of the power gets to escape wheel. But, amplitude is not just a function of that, what makes maximum amplitude is also:

  • Perfect shape and setting of the escapement, as in perfect teeth, stones, and their depth of lock.
  • Perfect lubrication of the above, e.g. using the right amount of 9415 can easily increase amplitude by 10 - 15 degs.
  • Perfect condition of the pallets horns, in the past watchmakers polished their face to a mirror to decrease rolling friction to the impulse jewel, which of course must be also perfect and steady in the plate.
  • Perfect shape of the mainspring, I have seen myself that even a small defect like the OP has can return 5 - 10 deg when corrected.
  • And of course, perfect conditions and lubrications of pivots, their jewels, and correct end-shake.

In other words, my approach follows Occam's razor: if you have a problem with how the balance oscillates, look at it first, then to its close companion the escapement, and only if all that is ruled out to all the rest.

Of course, one could also have both problems at the same time: reduced power delivery to the escapement, and imperfect balance/escapement system. In that case the predictable outcome would be a low base amplitude, with relatively small variations. I believe that is in fact what the OP is experiencing.

 

14 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

If we knew some details about the frequency and duration of the period of higher resistance, we could combine this with knowledge of the movement's design to guess where it might be, because we know how many times per hour each wheel turns.

That could be an approach if the balance/escapement was in perfect conditions with no variation between DU and DD. But, that's not the case here.

 

14 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

I wonder if some clever hackers could implement logging through the USB port which is marked "Calibration".

Clever hack as in reverse-engineer the hardware of the device, then rewrite firmware from scratch, so you would then be able to do anything you want with it; not a small feat really. Easier is to use a PC based timegrapher, which leads to my next note.

 

14 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

I wonder if i can determine how to connect the Weishi microphone to one of the XLR inputs on my audio workstation for this purpose.

The microphone connector looks like an XLR but it's not, it's an aero type. Check related discussion:

6 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I don't remember on this Seiko but did they jewel the main plate for the barrel if not check that the bushings or whatever are still around and you don't have too much side shake.

No jewel there on the 7S26. It was added later to the better calibers having the same base.

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How long would you say amplitude stays at 180? 

Quiet the mean time - after demagnetizising is it mainly 190°. I did not do long time measurement until now, but I will do this eavening. 🙂

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5 hours ago, UhrTobi said:

Thats on my to-do-list, too. As a physicist it would not be the first protocol I've hacked - but this needs a lot of time. I'm working on this😉. Until reaching this solution, I could try to do a long time protocol by a lot of screenshots from timegrapher. I will try something like thast this eavening.

Sad? I thought you are here to learn watch repair not do theoretical physics of how a watch works not that that isn't important but what about watch repair?

I was thinking why to take a watch of parting cleaner to get them put it back together and see if anything changes

 

5 hours ago, jdm said:

And of course, perfect conditions and lubrications of pivots their jewels, and endshake.

What becomes interesting is bad lubrication techniques or bad lubrication or wrong lubrication contrary to some belief in this discussion can have very dramatically bad affect.   We've seen it on the discussion group here somebody was using sticky grease on the pallet fork jewels. After all were supposed to use grease there aren't we? Who cares that it's totally wrong. For the other day someone was using something really heavy. Then I've seen a teaching situation where the student not sure what they were interpreting and basically the watch look like what were seeing here it was all over the place the amplitude was low because the lubrication used was used in the wrong place as best guess. In other words after the watch was cleaned again it was just fine so solely eight bad lubrication or bad location or somethingSo yes lubrication can have dramatic effects on things.

Is a video on lubricating the escapement amongst other things.

https://youtu.be/Gy0o0KKBqeQ

 

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Sad? I thought you are here to learn watch repair not do theoretical physics of how a watch works not that that isn't important but what about watch repair?

No, I'm not sad - on the contrary! Maybe I wrote that not clear enougt - or eaven in the wrong way (I wrote before, englisch is nor my highest qualification). I wanted to make it clear, that as I saw the interfaces on back side of the timegrapher I took the plan to hack them. Not now - sometimes later. Yet there is a little movement which want to come back on work and so do I 🙂  

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Is a video on lubricating the escapement amongst other things.

https://youtu.be/Gy0o0KKBqeQ

Thanks for the link - hard for me to understand what he says but I will give my very best. 🙂

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36 minutes ago, UhrTobi said:

 as I saw the interfaces on back side of the timegrapher I took the plan to hack them.

If you're thinking that is there USB support like protocols etc the connector of a Chinese timegrapher I am afraid you are too optimistic.  That physical connector has been probably chosen just because it's cheap and practical. I think that all it does is to put the machine in calibration mode shorting two pins, to read pps input on two more. To confirm anyone can check on the board if there is any USB related chip, there are even pictures online somewhere, and update on our pinned topic below:

 

While one is in the mood for hacking what should be really done is to find and document how to bring microphone input to the speaker to replace the useless synthetic sound. 

 

36 minutes ago, UhrTobi said:

hard for me to understand what he says but I will give my very best. 

You aren't the only one. But to be honest even if he was speaking like the BBC personally I have and recommed better subjects and channels to learn on. For example, the high quality training by our Host Mark Lovick, where lubrication is covered in a simple and practical way: watchfix.com

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10 minutes ago, jdm said:

While one is in the mood for hacking what should be really done is to find and document how to bring microphone input to the speaker to replace the useless synthetic sound. 

On a very long list of projects never to be completed? I think the easiest way might be to get the connectors from China to connect the microphone to the timing machine. Tap into the power supply ground the signal and just run it into a small amplifier with a speaker. It be easier than trying to hack into the machine and most people in the group would feel comfortable doing that anyway.

12 minutes ago, jdm said:

You aren't the only one. But to be honest even if he was speaking like the BBC personally I have and recommed better subjects and channels to learn on. For example, the high quality training by our Host Mark Lovick, where lubrication is covered in a simple and practical way: watchfix.com

Yes the audio really sucks but what about the speaker? You think he's competent in the subject material? I hate to send people to Watch and incompetent competent speaker if Mark can do a better job?

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That physical connector has been probably chosen just because it's cheap and practical...

That's possible. I will see, if there any data on wire - later in this year 😄.

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While one is in the mood for hacking what should be really done is to find and document how to bring microphone input to the speaker to replace the useless synthetic sound. 

Oh yes, and this is what I'm doing at this time. There is a microphon-signal on the upper two pins! But with a verry low levle so it is just not strong enough for direct use. Akkordimg this I will use a 40dB microphon aplifier between microphon and PC. I will report 🙂

If I will be suceccfull, I will make my own plug with 3D-printing - much faster than ordering anything from china😄

But this in the future. 

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You aren't the only one. But to be honest even if he was speaking like the BBC personally I have and recommed better subjects and channels to learn on.

🙃

 

Edited by UhrTobi
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1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

Yes the audio really sucks but what about the speaker? You think he's competent in the subject material? I hate to send people to Watch and incompetent competent speaker if Mark can do a better job?

John, nobody is questioning your advice. At the same time here everybody is free to express his opinion, mine is that the training by Mark Lovick is the best way a beginner can spend his time (and money), because is comprehensive, uncomplicated, and immediately applicable. Again, that is said with full respect to you and the Master teaching in that video.

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1 hour ago, UhrTobi said:

There is a microphon-signal on the upper two pins! But with a verry low levle so it is just not strong enough for direct use.

Have you have powered the pre-amp that it has inside? Have a read below

 

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1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

On a very long list of projects never to be completed? I think the easiest way might be to get the connectors from China to connect the microphone to the timing machine. Tap into the power supply ground the signal and just run it into a small amplifier with a speaker. It be easier than trying to hack into the machine and most people in the group would feel comfortable doing that anyway.

 

21 minutes ago, UhrTobi said:

Oh yes, and this is what I'm doing at this time. There is a microphon-signal on the upper two pins! But with a verry low levle so it is just not strong enough for direct use. Akkordimg this I will use a 40dB microphon aplifier between microphon and PC. I will report 🙂

If I will be suceccfull, I will make my own plug with 3D-printing - much faster than ordering anything from china😄

But this in the future.

Isn't that what I suggested up above? There is a power to the preamp from the timing machine. So you have power and ground and there's a signal. Just need one of those newfangled little circuit boards that powers speakers you don't need a really big speaker anyway.

And as I just now pointed out there is a dual op amp in the head of the microphone. There is no need for any additional amplification to go into a microphone input or even the line input of a PC. Which has been covered somewhere else on the discussion group already anyway we just didn't cover adding in the audio portion.

 

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Have you have powered the pre-amp that it has inside? Have a read below

I don't think it is the same system, because on no pin of the timegrapher itself there is any voltage. So I think it should be a passiv microphon.

But maybe you are right. I will going to find that out. 

But I will check this later - as soon as my little patient is on his legs again🙃

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50 minutes ago, UhrTobi said:

I don't think it is the same system, because on no pin of the timegrapher itself there is any voltage. So I think it should be a passiv microphon.

Looking at your pics again I see now that's not a Weishi 1000, so indeed it can be all different. 

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1 minute ago, jdm said:

Looking at your pics again I see now that's not a Witschi, so indeed it can be all different. 

I need to improve my mental to eyesight capability because I saw that but it didn't quite register?

Then I think you were the one who quoted above I may be wrong that's the wrong discussion? That microphone connection is a witschi connection versus the Chinese slightly changing the spelling of it which uses a different connector.

 

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Thats all true. It could be different systems both from from Weishi. The plug in the foto is a 5-Pol-DIN-male-plug the plug in my timegraoher ist a 3-pin-female-mini-xjr plug. We will see.

Butr now to something completly different 😄

I took now a lot of schreenshots from timegraher - less than 15min. I know, thas not enough to see all but eaven in this data, I see maybe something like a pattern. I will put it together and than I will post it here in a view minutes...

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I did a measurment up to 50min. The movement starts with a rate of ca. +20s/d and ends at -45s/d. The amplitude fluctuated between 169° and 191° - the mean time it was about 176° - less then yesterday . I started with a full loaded main spring today, too. On detail I saw a little pattern wich repeats ca. all 10s. It was visible in nearly all frames.

50minSeiko 7S26C.png

Pattern.jpg

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