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Just an idea I had:


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I had a clever idea, but I honestly have no idea how difficult it would be to implement.  I know we have members all over the world, and thus they are active on this forum at different times of the day, in part due to the time zone in which they reside.  It may help some of us to interact with others better if we could know what time of day it is in the member's home city.  Could their home time be made to appear below the member's icon (the little circle with their first initial, which appears next to all their posts)?  It would aid in telling those who wish to interact, or even direct-message with other members, whether it is 3:00 in the morning where that other person is, and they are in bed.  Or whether it is 12:00 noon, and that other person may be at lunch.  Perhaps using 24-hour military time is most applicable here.  Time is so much a part of our lives that this little addition would seem a very courteous benefit.  And if any forum should have such a thing, I think it should be ours.  Is such an addition a possibility? 

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2 hours ago, KarlvonKoln said:

It may help some of us to interact with others better if we could know what time of day it is in the member's home city.

It would be nice if we just knew the home country of where people were as answers can change depending upon your country. Like when you're looking for material the resources available in different countries very.

2 hours ago, KarlvonKoln said:

whether it is 3:00 in the morning where that other person is, and they are in bed.  Or whether it is 12:00 noon, and that other person may be at lunch.

The only problem with the time schedule is it assumes that the person is maintaining something resembling a normal time schedule and not hopelessly out of sync with the world like some of us are. So for instance at 3 AM I'm unfortunately typically awake. Then I was really happy I slept in past 12 Today as it was nice and quiet out there.

 

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1 hour ago, grsnovi said:

@KarlvonKoln And here I thought your idea might have been to delete all of the pinned posts with hundreds of replies (many of which are by the same person saying the same thing over and over and getting grumpy about it) and replace them with pinned FAQ documents.

Sounds like a great idea Gary. A grumpy individual, who's grumpy? , let me at em 

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For some reason the mods like to combine certain similar topics, regardless any specifics. It's a great way to lose information, and make it impossible to find or parse while also pissing people off in a condescending way. Not like it's not a problem with a handful of widely accepted and implemented solutions. Makes me grumpy.

I.e., a question about Barlow lenses warranting a discussion of its own since it's its own domain that doesn't apply to all scopes just gets dropped into the scope thread, and thereby ignored, unanswered, and subsequently lost in the noise of a thread nearly a hundred pages long that no one could reasonably be expected to wade through for all the myriad unrelated information. If there's a stronger case to be made to the contrary, I can always be convinced. 

In addition to being grumpy on the subject, I've been known to not shy from causing (good) trouble.

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12 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

For some reason the mods like to combine certain similar topics, regardless any specifics. It's a great way to lose information, and make it impossible to find or parse while also pissing people off in a condescending way. Not like it's not a problem with a handful of widely accepted and implemented solutions. Makes me grumpy.

Minor correction is as far as I can tell it's only one moderator and he's not even listed as a moderator but he is the moderator.

Then yes the combining of subjects is something that will make you grumpy. For instance I get an email they've replied I go there and it's gone? Then you have to make a decision as to whether you want to try to figure out where the heck it's gone to. It be nice if the message board would have a way of redirecting you to wherever your discussion has gone to as opposed to trying to find it.

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13 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

...Not like it's not a problem with a handful of widely accepted and implemented solutions...

I'm loving this place (so far) and I certainly don't envy the volunteer moderators, it's just that there are better ways of dealing with things.

Granted, it's certainly easier to toss every post that vaguely relates to an already pinned post but come on, after 7 years and 25 pages of not really replies, some of the pinned posts here ought to be retired in favor of FAQ's.

There could even be a requirement for reading FAQ's before posting. With AI being implemented in all sort of new and interesting ways a post could be scanned for a covered topic and put on hold until the OP read the FAQ. I realize that message board s/w may not be there yet but just think how much less whining we'd need to hear from those who find it beneath their station in life to answer a simple question.

When a brand-new-to-the-hobby person asks (for the millionth time) about what oils do I need, rather than dumping their question on top of 7 years worth of replies wouldn't it be easier to refer to a FAQ? 

I've been a message board moderator and I know that it's a thankless job, so to everyone of the moderators here: THANK-YOU, THANK-YOU, THANK-YOU...

It could be better.

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33 minutes ago, grsnovi said:

There could even be a requirement for reading FAQ's before posting.

Looks like a nice idea but I doubt you could ever enforce it.

One of the interesting problems we have if you look at the newbies. They discover watches they discovered that maybe they could work on watches and there's so filled with excitement and enthusiasm it is totally beyond their grasping that they're late to the party.

Maybe it is a slightly different way to handle this?

41 minutes ago, grsnovi said:

When a brand-new-to-the-hobby person asks (for the millionth time) about what oils do I need, rather than dumping their question on top of 7 years worth of replies wouldn't it be easier to refer to a FAQ?

I think what we need is a two-part system?

In horology one of my favorite amusing subjects is lubrication. Simplistically a never-ending discussion of no consensus of anything and everyone's going to be unhappy or bicker about something. But?

What is a two-part system we keep the trillion page discussion in play as the moderator will keep adding current discussions to that silly hopelessly get lost so that doesn't change but could we do a second item?

So let's pick on lubrication the second item would be as you call it a fact section or a quick answer section or some other thing where it would be a shorts relative reply. So in the case of lubrication keyless mechanism oils popular by the Swiss that only if you epilam. Otherwise you can use a grease then we would list out the greases that people are currently using. Oil used on the gear train possibly a heavy oil and a light oil we list out all of those. The escapement the pallet fork particularly the pallet stones list out whatever we use their. In other words under your fact section relatively short answers to the question we list out the various oils somebody new look at the list and they can pick and choose what they like if they have questions they can be referred back to the 50,000 page discussion and ask their questions there.

Some of the words somebody new comes to the group is all excited asks about lubrication screwdrivers magnifying glasses tweezers tools etc. we could say go And give the link for each of the facts and if you have any questions there's probably a discussion somewhere in the board.

I would also like to have a fact on how to even ask a question like we don't like generics I have five watches they're all doing this on the timing machine what could possibly be the problem? I regard each watch as separate each problem is unique. But I don't like generalizations of I have five watches well which watches it be nice if people posting questions would put the make model whatever of the watch their asking the question about maybe a picture of the watch because not everyone will recognize your watch it might seem to be very common by you but maybe it's not common by us so we really seven fact on how to ask a basic question so someone asked the question we can refer to them or the question I will ask over and over again is what was the condition of the watch in before you serviced it when was the last serviced etc. Because yes it's really important of my watch looks like crap on the timing machine is us an incoming watch or watch that you just serviced.

So unfortunately somebody is stuck with a heck of a lot a work. But it would be nice fantasy of somewhere we had relatively short answers for questions were we could send people to look at the answers here is the answer to your question and if you want to discuss it I'm sure it's being discussed somewhere else on the group.

Because no one is ever going to read through a multipage discussion. Even on multipage watch discussions one of the irritations that's come up in the past of people will jump in towards the end of the discussion and re-ask the same questions over and over again because it won't even read a two-page discussion of we've tried all those things no easy solution to any of these things

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

Minor correction is as far as I can tell it's only one moderator and he's not even listed as a moderator but he is the moderator.

You're referring to me, you could have made my name, I have no issue with that.

 

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

Then you have to make a decision as to whether you want to try to figure out where the heck it's gone to. It be nice if the message board would have a way of redirecting you to wherever your discussion has gone to as opposed to trying to find it.

When a new topic is completely merged into the already existing and pinned one about the same subject, there is a redirect left for 30 days that brings you there.
When it's just some posts that are split from one topic to another (because ti went off-topic from the subject), there is no redirect. This happens unfrequently, when it does you can still find your posts by either looking at what you've posted (my activity). And you will get the usual notification if mentioned or replied to.

I believe is better to have a single topic instead of hundreds asking the same question to receive the same answer.
I suggest new members to use the search box and take the time to read pinned topics, or at least browse, you will be rewarded.
And I please ask who gives answers to be understanding if these sometime are moved to a topic where they have posted already.
Thank you for making this the best and friendliest watch repair community.

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36 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I think what we need is a two-part system?

I think a two-tiered system would work. What if the newbies were limited to a FAQ heavy area that included the collected wisdom of the group on lubrication, screwdrivers, time graphers, etc... and they weren't allowed into the big boys area until they showed they actually were going to stick around and contribute?

@JohnR725 also said: Because no one is ever going to read through a multipage discussion...

In the last weeks I've read through some of the 25 page threads because I was embarrassed that perhaps the answer actually was buried there. Usually it is but getting to it is pretty painful.

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5 minutes ago, grsnovi said:

I think a two-tiered system would work. What if the newbies were limited to a FAQ heavy area that included the collected wisdom of the group on lubrication, screwdrivers, time graphers, etc... and they weren't allowed into the big boys area until they showed they actually were going to stick around and contribute?

@JohnR725 also said: Because no one is ever going to read through a multipage discussion...

In the last weeks I've read through some of the 25 page threads because I was embarrassed that perhaps the answer actually was buried there. Usually it is but getting to it is pretty painful.

Has everyone calmed down now ?

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40 minutes ago, jdm said:

When a new topic is completely merged into the already existing and pinned one about the same subject, there is a redirect left for 30 days that brings you there.

This is true, I've seen them and as a newbie, I appreciate that I may not know exactly where something should have gone in the first place. 

@jdm also said: I believe is better to have a single topic instead of hundreds asking the same question to receive the same answer.

No argument there. I guess my quibble is that the 25 page threads do indeed have the same question asked at least 50 times where condensing all of that down to a Frequently Asked Questions (aka: FAQ) could help. I say could because in my message board experience you will always have trouble with newbies who would rather jump in with their immediate question of the moment than even take the time to read a FAQ.

I'm currently looking at a group on Facebook where EVERY post is run past a moderator before it gets put up for general consumption. I think that's a rather draconian approach (I know it annoys me) but the flip side is that the board reflects the strict intent of the individual responsible for the board's success.

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Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

Has everyone calmed down now ?

I've been thinking the same for the past week about grouping members according to their knowledge might work. But some will progress faster than others and will want help from a pro. Not sure what the answer is really, certainly some understanding  from both sides as me and Klassiker discussed  a week ago when I kicked off about some sarcasm. Bickering certainly  isn't the answer though. Maybe some more effort into making the beginner's be aware of what is expected from them. And a bit more tolerance from pros when faced with what seems like stupid questions that they learnt on their first day of watch schooling. There are two ways of talking to someone that wants to learn. You can respect that they don't know and understand much and may need a lot of help and explanation and show some patience. Or you can talk to them like an ass and come across looking like one. I expect there will always be both. But considering  there are over 10,000 members and I've met maybe 20 and possibly noticed 50 max. Then there is a hell of a lot that have never been back after a few visits. Not good.

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Regarding the whole point of my original post (and its intent toward courtesy and being conscientious) I've read a few valid points about the habits of my fellows.  Many of us keep odd hours.  I suppose the best I could do instead, before going into a very detailed and lengthy discussion, is simply ask other people if this is a good time for them.  Same with sending direct messages.
In return, I may rewrite my signature line (if I can remember how) to include more detailed information about when best to reach me about somewhat immediate matters.  If I'm not able to do so soon: I am in the Eastern Standard time zone, being 7:00 pm here (19:00 hours) and am typically most available in the afternoons nearly every day, but I rise early in the morning so I've been known to check in here early also.  I don't know yet what anyone would need me for, but I pop in here around those times.

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Maybe this is a good and appropriate time, jdm, to split a thread. KvK's idea is a good one, and figuring out a better way to handle duplicative content is worthy of a discussion in its own right. 

It's been a few years since I was a web dev, but one of the things about UI design is that you have to be cognizant of "trends". Like I imagine many people here, I could not care any less about what is or isn't trendy, but the internet and computers rely on trends. You have to have a common design language for people to know how the machine works, or every single website would require its own dedicated manual. If you want to close an application you look up in the top left corner on Mac/Linux or right for PC. If your website has a login function, it'll generally be found in the upper right corner. If you're going to have a place to type something, there will be a box with a solid outline, and it'll have a button with its own specific design language at the bottom right (see below for example). It goes on and on and on. NOT doing these things is how you frustrate people. It may be that before computers, it made sense to send a message by... putting it in an envelope or something, but if you made your UI require the user to do some analogous motion (whatever that would be), you'd just confuse people to the point that no one would use your application.

There are a million forums on the internet, and they all have a lot of the same problems. This is one of them, and it's been solved a handful of ways. Tossing duplicative questions into a thread causes more duplicative questions, and makes it much harder for those asking those questions to find the information they asked for (or are about to ask). Stickies and FAQs are a common solution, and part of the understood and expected UI paradigm. It's just as common for there to be a culture of politely directing people who miss the appropriate sticky/FAQ thread to that thread. If a particular question is not specifically addressed in the sticky, then it can be addressed in the new thread, and if warranted added to the sticky. While I suppose throwing everything vaguely wrench-like into a "wrench" file is probably the older way of doing things, a collection of stickies/FAQs for each sub-forum would hardly be reinventing any wheels.

https://www.invisioncommunity.com

Without getting any deeper than about two minutes allows without an account, I see they have pinned topics as a feature. That's pretty much what we're talking about. Making that work in this context would likely best be done at this point with new threads for whatever would best be stickied to summarize the junk drawer threads. I would suggest the best way to solve this problem without creating undue challenges for mods would be to lock those threads, and have volunteers who feel confident in the specific topics write up summary guides with the purpose of being stickied. There are enough brilliant people here that the topics could probably be spread around without burdening any one person too much. VWatchie, Nickelsilver, jdm, JohnR, OldHippy, Marc... If I keep going, it's going to seem like I put some serious thought into it, I'll forget someone, and the impression might be left that I don't think of someone as being as brilliant as they clearly are...

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4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

And a bit more tolerance from pros when faced with what seems like stupid questions that they learnt on their first day of watch schooling.

The problem is this is a two-way street.  What about the newbies showing a little tolerance? I have the vague feeling that last week I got scolded several times and where was the tolerance from the newbie?

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2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

The problem is this is a two-way street.  What about the newbies showing a little tolerance? I have the vague feeling that last week I got scolded several times and where was the tolerance from the newbie?

Yes John it is a two way street I completely  agree with you on that one. And I did actually  apologise for that after it was finally explained to me how you communicate through software and that your wording can sometimes be misunderstood. But sometimes it can be a class room full of teachers not fully agreeing with each other, explaining things and confusing one or maybe two students that have just started school and occasionally humiliating them in the process. Instead of one teacher addressing a classroom of students all learning from the same platform. It absolutley boils down to teacher and student having respect for one another simple as, but that is also down to those individuals natures, and as we know we are all different. I'm a black and white kind of guy, with a little grey around the outside when needed. I do hope we have some agreement with this John as I for one value your opinions and the help that you've given me as I know many others do as well on a daily basis and appreciate the time that you give up to do so. If not then at least respectfully agree to disagree.

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There would be fewer repetitive questions from newbies if WRT followed the commonly accepted/expected design language of internet forums, and they could A) find the information in the first place, B) not be unnecessarily burdened by lengthy and labyrinthine threads once they find it, and C) more experienced users had a way to direct them to that information.

As is, a search for any specific set of terms (the first recourse) will lead to an incredibly long thread, the information being sought is not in the first page worth of posts, so they make the [i]correct[/i], if inaccurate, assumption that the information they're after has not been previously addressed, then ask. The people who know these junk drawer threads exist have two options; either wade through the junk drawer ourselves, or answer the question for the umpteen-billionth time. 

The junk drawer thread moderation strategy is and has been an objective failure and should be immediately abandoned. It makes accessing information more difficult for new users, makes helping new users more difficult for senior users, annoys senior users who are constantly bombarded with the same questions over and over, and makes more completely counterproductive work for mod(s). It should be immediately ceased in all cases as a practice, and concurrently replaced with "pinned" threads (per the forum software's terminology) created and curated by senior users with expertise in that given topic.

The only pinable topic I feel like I could remotely make a dent in is stereo microscopes. I'm sure there are others who would be able to speak in a much more authoritative manner on the subject, but in the interest of putting my money where my mouth is, I'll be the first to step up and volunteer to write up the initial post and direction on that one.

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