Mauthe alarm clock?

[HectorLooi]

I bought this clock on Ebay 2 weeks ago. The seller listed it as a Mauthe carriage clock but I checked photos of every Mauthe musical alarm clock in the net and it doesn't look quite right.

All the Mauthe musical alarm clocks that I see have a seconds and alarm sub-dial. But the one I bought has the alarm dial inside the case, behind the door.

Another strange thing is the maker's mark on the face. It is a 2 crossed arrows mark, which identify it as a HAC clock.

Can anyone identify and date this clock?

[watchweasol]

Hi Hector  the crossed arrows identify it as an HAC,  Hamburg American Clock co .  Looks pretty grubby. I take it the case is brass  or spelter looks pretty thin metal, should clean up ok though  good luck with the work.     cheers

[Bod]

What tune does it play?

I have one very similar, plays Daisy Daisy, mine I belive was a wedding present in 1917.

Bod

[oldhippy]

It was made before 1920 probably around 1912. The hands are the spade design. It's not spelter or brass looks more like tin.  

[Bod]

Definitely tin, and very thin "brass" sheet, some tin had a very soft "silverery" coating, which polishes off!

You may have a wooden base under the music movement.

Bod

[HectorLooi]

Still waiting for it to arrive.

So should I even attempt to polish the case?

[watchweasol]

Hi Hector   I would start with mild soap and water plus a tooth brush to start with to remove all surface grime, then re appraise the situation from there. The movement should clean up pretty well though.

[HectorLooi]

Thanks WW. I'll probably polish an inconspicuous area first and see how it goes.

How about the clock dial? Would scanning and printing a new dial hurt the value of the clock?

[oldhippy]

Go a head with the dial as the clock is of little value so you aren't going to harm it in anyway. The only thing is it might look odd if that case doesn't clean up. I don't think it will improve much. 

[watchweasol]

As O.H.says its not going to look any worse but a new clean shiny dial would look odd with the case as aged as that.  Personally I would clean it all up , minimise any damage and look at it again in its "cleaned up working state" then decide the next course of action.  I like to see clocks with all the scars they collect in life.

[HectorLooi]

The clock arrived today in a rather battered up box. The clock itself was wrapped in one of the new large air sac type of bubble wrap and almost every air sac had burst. The clock must have had a really rough journey.

But the glass panels and metal case survived. The front panel and rear door appear to be brass but the rest of the case is tin or nickel plated steel.

My heart sank when I opened the door and the balance wheel dangled out. I have a box of spare clock hairsprings, so I wasn't particularly worried. 

The music box was in quite good condition, although it plays a tune which I can't identify.

The movement is in rather good condition and it's 100% HAC. The movement appears to have a long seconds arbor but it appears to have been cut off to accommodate a clock face without a seconds sub-dial.

I'll post some photos when I  start working on it tomorrow.

[HectorLooi]

I worked on the hairspring before bed and surprisingly managed to untangle it quite quickly. I replaced the balance, did a quick clean and oiled the going train. Adjusted the beat and the clock came back to life.

 

[oldhippy]

What is the action like with the balance? Make sure the H/Spring is free and moving between the regulator where ever the regulator is set it must be free and not resting it should move up and down between the regulator. From the side of the movement you are showing it looks like it has hardly had any wear. 

[HectorLooi]

Yes. The hairspring moves up and down between the regulator. I'll make the finer adjustments when the plates are taken apart. 

28 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

From the side of the movement you are showing it looks like it has hardly had any wear. 

Yes. This has me wondering if it's a frankenclock. The movement plates are chromed and very thick, while the rest of the clock looks cheap. 

The dial is extremely fragile and while removing it from the front plate, another piece fell off. The backing plate of the dial has two additional holes, positioned over the seconds wheel and alarm setting wheel. I suspect the original dial had sub-dials for the second hand and alarm.

[watchweasol]

Hi Hector  the clock looks better than the case,  It looks like a lever escapement by the escape wheel. In a clock like that I would have expected a pin lever. Certainly the quality of the movement doesn't seem to fit with the cheap case.

 

[HectorLooi]

Yes. It's a really strange escapement. It looks like a deadbeat escapement fixed to a pallet fork.

I can't figure out how to remove the power from the mainspring. There isn't enough space to put a containment ring around the mainspring. Should I let down the spring completely and remove the plates?

[watchweasol]

Hi Hector  can you post a picture of the escapement  sounds interesting.  Regards the mainspring if you can get a tie wrap or a wire round it, ok if not  wedge the train and remove the balance and fork/pallet if its possible and let it run down in a controlled fashion using a gloved thumb on one of the wheels.  I think the tie wrap/wire looks to be the better option then hold the wound spring in a gloved hand and remove the wrap and control the uncoiling of the spring

[HectorLooi]

Thanks WW. I'll try tying it with cable tie tomorrow.

I'll post better photos once I get the plates apart.

The dial is in such poor condition that I'll print a new one. The case is so rusty in some areas that I'm thinking of sanding it down and spraying it with spray-on chrome. I've never tried that before, hope it doesn't turn out too tacky.

[watchweasol]

Thats a weird escapement a combination of lever and verge never see one like that before.  The case cant look any worse and thats a fact so any improvement is good  Take care

[oldhippy]

Sorry to disappoint you but it isn't a verge escapement. It's an anchor escapement 

[watchweasol]

No disapointment there anchor it is my terminology is out of date like me.

[HectorLooi]

I got the plates apart and thought I would finish cleaning the movement yesterday but I got hooked on a Japanese anime series and binged watched it till after midnight. 

Anyway, I found that some clockmaker had gotten into this clock before me. The plates are very scratched up inside and two holes have punch marks around them.

I also took some photos of the escapement this morning.

 

[oldhippy]

Punch holes are very common in clocks considering this might be a replacement movement, at least it is showing some kind of wear and its all part of its history.  

[HectorLooi]

I spent last night trying to form the endcurve of the hairspring but found it impossible. I came to the conclusion that either the hairspring or the regulator is not original.

There is no evidence of any previous endcurve on this hairspring and when the hairspring is placed on top of the regulator, it looks too big for it. There is no room to open up the last loop for the hairspring to breath. The 2nd loop keeps banging into the regulator. 

As this is not the original hairspring, I don't even know if the length and strength is correct. I think I'll fit the hairspring back on the balance without the regulator and let it run for 24 hours and see if it will even work for this clock.

[oldhippy]

I don't think the regulator is a problem and I'm sure it is original to that movement, the brass colour is the same as the wheels. Pin the H/S about half an inch in and test, when pinned you can see how close it is to rubbing the regulator and you should be able to bend it away. This is going to be one of those trial and error repairs, only then will you be able to tell if it is the correct H/S