Anyone recognise this brand?

[Michael1962]

This has popped up on ebay over here and is not working. Clip that holds the pendulum on is broken and a piece of wood on the side of the clock. Nothing insurmountable.

I have tried looking for the name on the face of the clock, but am not having much luck at all. I have tried AIRON, ATRON and ALRON. I have sent a message to the seller asking for photos of the movement and the rear movement plate specifically.

Before I get that though, does anyone have an idea of what I am looking at here?

Thanks,

Michael.

[watchweasol]

Hi Michael   The dial name is quite insignificant as they are usually the finishers name.  The movement is the thing and on the back plate there is usually a makers stamp and may be a serial number with thee we cad usually find out the date etc. The style of the case and dial also help.   There is a site mikrolisk who lists most if not all of the rfegistered makers of watches and clocks.  Always a good reference.

[oldhippy]

If you could post the ebay link I'll have a look for you.

[Michael1962]

This is the link for the ad. The lady has added a few photos of the movement and the back plate. No makers mark but there is a number.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/175007420687?hash=item28bf41510f:g:dEgAAOSwqCthg4FN

[oldhippy]

A modern chain driven Westminster chime more then likely German. These types of movements do not last long. Made of poor brass and soft steel. I expect the number is just a manufactures number as there isn't any other type of I D.   

[watchweasol]

Hi Michael  would agree with OH, the clip she refers to is probably the suspension spring. some of these are produced in the far east (Korea). If you can get it cheap enough, worth having a go at.   cheers

[RogerH]

I was given one of these by a Clock repairer that gives me tuition in the ways or Horology.....I'm like a very old apprentice! but he said he wouldn't get involved in it as it's just not worth the time and effort. It's good for me though as a practice piece. I'm using it to help design my first long case test stand and well as a strip, service and general play around. But sadly, not worth anything in the real world.

[oldhippy]

I think you will find it's a Howard Miller. I have looked on the internet and some of there movements start of with U W before the number. They are made in China, Asia or SE Asia. watchweasol was very close. 

[Michael1962]

That's interesting. We have a large Howard Miller and I think it is a really nice clock. It doubles as a display cabinet with a lot of Liz's porcelain dolls in it.

I have just noticed that it is out of beat though and after I oiled the movement a fair while back, it strikes every quarter hour (as it should), but it strikes at about 2 minutes after every quarter. Something must have moved or has changed position.

Something for me to look at.

[Michael1962]

I suppose if I could get it for five dollars, it’s cheap.

I zoomed in on the first photo of the movement and I am pretty sure that watchweasol is right and it is the suspension spring.

 Is it possible to make a suspension spotting yourself? Might be a good exercise and then a learning/training movement and case. 

[Michael1962]

Spotting should have been spring. 
I just got it for $5.

 Even if I just use it for practice etc, have to be happy with that. 

[oldhippy]

Yes the suspension spring is broken but it is easy to replace. $5 what a bargain. 

[Michael1962]

It’s going to cost about $25 in fuel to drive and get it. I’ll pick it up on the snare day as the other clock. Big day. I’ll be like a kid in a chocolate shop. 

[watchweasol]

Thats one good clock for $5 dollars, worth the $25 dollar collection any day.  Suspension even an assortment bag costs £10  its still a bargin . well done and good luck with the clock   dont forget the pictures.

[Michael1962]

Well I got enough done today on the Hettich and I want to get some other stuff from the guy in NSW that restored my Seiko, so I removed the Urgos from the Grandmother clock case. The $5 dollar clock.

This is probably one of those clocks that @oldhippywould not be really impressed with. Where to start? Pendulum is really light. The wheel that turns with the movement for the star constellations and moon is plastic. Only one of the large screws that anchors the movement at the bottom to the case was there. I thought I would look in the bottom off the case to see if it had fallen out and someone didn't bother to pick it up. Nope, it wasn't there. Neither was the head of the broken screw in the pallet cock, nor the three missing tapered pins that should be in the dial feet to hold the dial to the movement.

I thought I could be a bit ham fisted with things, but I have improved immensely and I'm really happy with my grandmother's Hettich so far, but have a look at this. It took me a while to work out out that the top part of the suspension spring was not on a tapered pin but a screw. I noticed the large side of the screw moving slightly when I touched it with an awl. So how to get it out? Put a small punch in my bench vice and pushing the smaller end of the screw on that while using one of my 'slowly becoming sacrificial' precision screw drivers that I have had for years, I was able to get the screw removed far enough so that I could get a small pair of pliers on the screw and out it came. I didn't break the suspension spring. It was like that when I got the clock. The small cylindrical thing in the photo is what is left of the screw.

I am going to need to buy a selection of brass and steel tapered pins. I could always try turning them on the Unimat. Also going to need to get an assortment of small brass screws and maybe some nickel plated ones.

Anyway. now that I have the spring out, I'll be ordering one from the place that did my watch. Also some broaches and reamers. Going to ask them if they have and small taps and dies as well as some micro drills.

I have now also seen one of the movements that I have read @oldhippywriting about where all of the pivots run in bushes that are fitted to the brass movement plates. Not sure if the bushes are brass. They don't have a typical brass colour. Even if they have tarnished. They are quite brown in colour. I must admit that I don't understand how it could be cost saving to make the plates out of inferior brass and then all the mucking around to fit bushes to every pivot hole?

Hey it was $5 dollars and Sara (my daughter in law) loves the clock, so it has a home to go to.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Michael1962

[Michael1962]

I need some advice guys. I have a missing brass screw/bolt that holds the movement in the case.

What thread does everyone think it would be? Do Urgos movements have a particular thread that they use?

I have sat here with my verniers and the other bolt of the one I need to replace and I cannot find the thread for love nor money. I have a metric thread gauge in the garage, but it is not that. It is not Whitworth. (that was a stab in the dark, but hey, who knows?) And it isn't UNF.

It does not appear to be BA as I can't find the diameter or TPI on a BA chart that I have. It is close to a 4BA, but different enough to make me think it isn't that either.

I'll admit to being stumped at this point. I can turn up a blank to make a screw quite easily,  but I don't know what threading die to get hold of.

As a mechanical fitter, I should be able to work this out. It would just be nice fi I came up with measurements that were close to thread charts.

[oldhippy]

The link is dead and I can't remember what to clock looked like so can you post a nice clear photo for me please and which part is missing. 

[Michael1962]

Here you go.

Movement & the screw/bolt? in question.

Numbers on the movement rear plate.

Interesting escape wheel. I haven't even seen a drawing of one like this before.

Screw diameter in mm.

Screw diameter in inches.

Dial.

Just looked to the first photo again. Bench in serious need of a cleanup and birthday.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Michael1962

[oldhippy]

Why not buy a pair of bolts and tap the holes in the pillars, no one will see them, there is nothing wrong in doing that, clock makers use more steel pins then brass but you will need both. Those are brass bushings pre made ones. that escape wheel to me looks as if the teeth have been worn off, even if the escapement works  which I don't think it will the swing of the pendulum will be next to zero. What are the pallets like?

[watchweasol]

Would like a closeup of the escape wheel and pallets  as Old Hippy said the wheel looks badly worn. Bolt looks like a seat board screw and bolts the movement into the case via the seat board and into the bottom pillars. Relatively modern clock.

[Michael1962]

Interesting that you have asked that. I can't recall any damage to the pallets whatsoever. I'll take a photo of them tomorrow and post them up. I quite possibly haven't paid enough attention to them when I took them out of the movement.

Maybe I'll usde this movement for practice and give my son and daughter in law one of my other clocks.

Everyone is correct. The screw that I have shown attaches the bottom of the movement into the case. So the easiest thing would be to buy two new screws, the correct taps and tap the holes larger.

I am going to take on the challenge of making a new escape wheel for practice. That should be fun.

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Michael1962

[watchweasol]

Hi Michael. Re tapping the thread and getting screws to match would be the sensible way to go.  The escape wheel teeth are almost non existent making a new one would be a challenge.  Good luck and keep us posted.

[Michael1962]

As requested by @oldhippy, here is a picture of the pallets. I stood them up so hopefully you will be able to zoom in and see them. They are in really good nick. The escape wheel has got me confused. Firstly with the way that it looks and secondly, when I had a really close look at it, it appear incredibly uniform around the entire circumference. Even looking at what you'd expect to be the root of a tooth at the wheel body, the shape does not seem to match up with what a standard escape wheel would look like.

I put the pallets back in as a test and by applting a bit of pressure to the chain wheel of the train, you can move the crutch and the escape wheel progresses as you would expect. I do understand though that the impulse to the pendulum would be decreased by the lack of escape wheel teeth, but then watching the pallets move as the wheel progresses, if the teeth were much longer, then I am not sure if you would be able to set the pallets up to the escape wheel to hget the correct amount of drop or lock.

Into the books I shall go.

[oldhippy]

Sorry to be a pain but is both faces that I need to see. 

[watchweasol]

And also a picture of the escape wheel its self as from first impressions it looks badly worn, so we need to confirm either its good or bad.