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Jar belongs to Elma Super Automatic which I acuired recently, its in very good shape, all functions are working fine. Im looking for service manual in English, I received one from Elma but its in German which I dont speak...

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I finished cleaning and oiling my Elma and did a test run with water and it worked like a charm. Im wondering about fluids I was using so far with my cheap ultrasonic - Elma 1:9 and 2 baths of special very clean benzine - it did briliant job so far ( I was advised by a watchmaker about it, and when I did it I was amazed how well it worked, most of my watches is about 100 years old and you can imagine how bad it can be....), but Elma has hitting chamber and it gets really hot - so not very good for benzine I suppose? I have a question regarding oiling Elma - is there anything to oil on this small motor which spins bucket with parts? Also Ive noticed some socket on part which moves on main shaft - maybe also for oiling? I have to wait for few days, meybe my friend will manage to translate manual for me, so it could be more clear.

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btw. I've just found that wave breakers I posted can be ordered. If you look at http://www.boley.de/en/shop/5078.wellenbrecher/692075.wellenbrecher

you will find it. I suppose cousins can do it for you on request as its not in the catalogue. I have ordered all cork parts and I have it replaced, slightly different than original ones but fit fine.

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To RAFAL. I also have one of these but it is not at present functioning correctly and on one of the stages it appears to emit a little smoke from somewhere. I have tried to open your attachment for the wiring diagram without success, could you please let me have a link or copy please.Also did you ever manage to obtain the manual for this machine? I would dearly like to know the how the machine functions from when you switch on and press the start button and what the timer does and when. Regards in anticipation, atkinson.

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here is a link, it seems to work: https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=18171

but its diagaram for RM-90 not for this machine. Regardng manual, Elma says they have only one page german manual, Im not at home at this moment and dont have access to it, but you can get in touch with Elma support (on their website), just fill in info they need in contact form, serial number etc. and ask for manual. They are helpful, but dont have much about this devices. Regarding smoke form your machine,  do you now on which step it does it? Fist I would check heater which is last step (one without a jar), it can be disconected if you want - cable which gos down in one of pilars - there is small junction with screws. My machine is generaly working, but for some reason its out of sync and dont  lift bucket when it suppouse to - this can be overided manually so I still can use it, I dont know how to fix it, all automation is semi mechancal/electrical....

 

Rafal

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Thanks for the information Rafal, I have sent an e-mail to Elma and await their response. I have been running it off and on today and it's the motor that moves the big gear wheel that is smoking, ( if it's faulty and burns out so be it) When you find the time can you run through the sequence of your machine please, do you operate it all manually by pressing the start button to each phase. I have been taking notes on mine.1 main switch ON press start it goes down to the  first jar and spins for 2 minutes clockwise the 2 minutes anticlockwise it then raises and spins excess off.2 moves to next stage and repeats the operation on the second jar,after this it raises and stops.So my machine is only doing 2 stages instead of 4. Does your timer reset itself? mine times out and that's it but i looked at one on You Tube and noticed that the guy sets the time and after each stage it automatically goes back to what he set it at.Your thoughts would be appreciated. Regards atkinson.

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Machine goes on all 4 steps automaticaly, there  is no need for manual overide (perfect condition :) ). Regarding timer - its only for first step - washing in watch cleaning solutions, next 2 steps are just for flushing cleaning solution and repeling water (as elma solution is water based). Timer only extends time for washing, in fact it stops another small engine which is timing whole process - when you remove cover and use timer you will notice when this thing stop moving. Timer is simple device which is wired in a way that it brakes circut when time is set, when it reach zero, circut is connected back.

Before you burn motor which turns big wheel - please check lubrication as it require maintenance every 3 months according to elmas manual (I suppuse if you are professional watchamker and clean many watches...), thats include wheels, pilar and clutch (not sure if that is proper name for this knee like connection) - to big wheel is mounted rod for lifting bucket. step 2 and 3 take same time to finish, so when it stops on 3rd something mighte be also broken or blocking - all intervals when bucket spins are mechanically switched on and off by bronze disks with tooths. Also lower table where jars sit could have some issue with turning, when it start smoking it seems it has not enough power to move.

If you have picture of inside it would help to spot any difference from my machine. I dont know if my description will help you or get it worst :). 

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Rafal .Thanks again for the information most informative, i am posting some pictures for you to study, when i removed the cover the red wire on the right of the terminal block on top of the transformer ( 1st picture) was not connected, i have put it into the last connection on the right is this the same as yours? Regards atkinson.

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Rafal, I have been observing the machine again this afternoon and i believe i now know what the problem may be, it would seem that although the small motor next to the transformer is spinning forwards and backwards the gears do not move at all, consequently the cams do not move.When you have time can you let me know at what stage the gears/cams move and is the red wire in the terminal block in the correct position? Thanks atkinson.

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Im sorry for late response, but I just got back home. At first glance your machine looks like re-wired or upgraded version, connector to transformer doesnt match mine setup. Also yours have 2 starting resistors where mine has only one (big green resistors which sliding part - it gives a kind of soft start for motors).

Small motor next to transformer is a sync motor, it rotates with certain speed to measure time (when you use timer it will stop, to spin bucket for longer time), on same axis you have those disks with tooth's which move end switches on and off  -  one is connected to relay switch which is responsible for changing direction on which bucket spins, second end switch moves procedure forward -  next stage/jar.

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Thank you Rafal for your reply, i managed to realign the gears on the sync motor last night and the cams go backwards and forwards now, i still however find that the machine does not start on the first jar and end on the heater stage, can you Rafal when you find time to post a photo please of the position of the cams on the first stage before starting the machine, Thank you,Atkinson

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Hi Atkinson,

 

I finally manage to take pictures for you:

 

 

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2 end switches on left hand side are in ON position, ones form right hand side - first is in ON position and 2nd is in OFF state. Machine just stopped and red light is on, so it possible to lift bucket a bit without starting new cycle (easier to remove bucket). And close up picture:

 

 

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second set close up:

 

 

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Edited by Rafal

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Thanks once again Rafal for your message, i am posting some pictures taken this morning of the machine after the heater stage, i have now got the machine to complete a full cycle up to this stage but unfortunately i now find that the heater is not switching on, just wondering if perhaps the cams are out of sync or the worst possible outcome that the heater is kaput.The total cycle time from switch on to the end of the heater stage is approximately 18minutes.

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Well i have finally got everything working, the heater you are probably aware is connected by two sets of fixed contacts so the stage before the main  heater stage brings the heater on to gently warm up before the main heater stage, when i was testing the machine one of the knucle joints came off and the top of the machine came down heavily onto the heater tube causing the roller cams to be out of alignment, once realigned contact is now made on both stages of the heater. I have run the machine for eight cycles and it seems fine so my next trial after i have replaced one of the knucles will be with fluids.Thanks Again for your help. Atkinson.

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I have been following this post with great interest as I have (until this post) never come across this style of cleaner. What intrigues me is why it has a heater. I have a L&R which has three pots & also ultrasonic cleans as well as cleaning. Just wondering what cleaning solution will work with heat.

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Hi clockboy.Most if not all european watch cleaning machines ( i have four different ones) and they all  have a final stage of heating the contents of the basket to dry them. You have the following stages, 1st clean, 2nd rinse,3rd final rinse, 4th drying.To my knowledge all watch cleaning chemicals will work with these machine, i personally use L&R and Horoclene. Regards atkinson. P.S if you want pictures of any of them just let me know.

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My apologies I was forgetting the drying stage which my L&R has too. I was thinking (mistakenly) it was a heat process being used during the cleaning process much the same as ultrasonic cleaners have. 

Yet another senior moment :)

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