Dial (face) cleaning?

[Blubarb]

I've got myself into a situation. I was replacing the sweep hand of this Speedmaster 3590.50 when a couple of water splashes got onto the dial (don't ask it's a long story) anyway I didn't realise it until later looking at the dial under a different light that the water had stained the dial. Do you know of anything I can apply do to remove this stain. Appreciate any ideas, thoughts, tips, etc.

[bobm12]

I'm sorry it happened Bluebarb! Dials are very delicate and I don't have the expertise to give you a solution. Those dials here can probably be purchased for about US$400...maybe ebay or a refinishing business can be the solution. Maybe another member can offer a better solution. Hope all gets sorted to your advantage.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[Blubarb]

Thanks, Bob. It looks way worse in the enlarged pic. I can live with it as it is only observable when you really look for it. Still, if I can remove it with some kind of cleaner I will.

[bobm12]

The problem with water stains is that most of the time it won't wash away with water! And since the dials are so delicate, any other chemicals might destroy the thing you are trying to fix. There is baby oil you can try but again it might or might not work since in the end, you'll need soap and water on the dial one more time...not recommending anything, just a thought. The baby oil floats dirt and stuff and, we are not talking about floating those but the actual water stain which is a completely different animal. I wish we had a dial expert on board!

[stroppy]

I would use some CRC electronic contact cleaning fluid (which you can get in a spray can).  It's a type of solvent that will not damage plastic or paint and leaves no residue.  You could spray some of the stuff into the lid of the spray can and use a cotton bud to soak up a little of the liquid.  It dries quickly so you'll need to work quickly at wiping the stain.  I'd test it on an old watch face first to see if it doesn't do any harm and then have a go with it.  It's magic stuff precisely because it leaves no marks behind.

[Geo]

I use one drop of washing liquid in a cup of lukewarm water and a cotton bud.

Dip the cotton bud in the water then remove excess water leaving the bud damp. Now very gently wipe the dial with it to remove the staining. Finish off with a clean cotton bud using fresh water, again making sure that the bud is only damp. Finally use a clean piece of rodico to remove any tiny specs of dust or strands of cotton from the bud, if there are any.

I don't recommend using any type of solvent on the dial.

[Blubarb]

I use one drop of washing liquid in a cup of lukewarm water and a cotton bud.

Dip the cotton bud in the water then remove excess water leaving the bud damp. Now very gently wipe the dial with it to remove the staining. Finish off with a clean cotton bud using fresh water, again making sure that the bud is only damp. Finally use a clean piece of rodico to remove any tiny specs of dust or strands of cotton from the bud, if there are any.

I don't recommend using any type of solvent on the dial.

Thank you, Geo. you don't think the application of fresh water will leave mineral deposits over the paint again? What you are suggesting sounds as if it will work.

[Blubarb]

.

I would use some CRC electronic contact cleaning fluid (which you can get in a spray can).  It's a type of solvent that will not damage plastic or paint and leaves no residue.  You could spray some of the stuff into the lid of the spray can and use a cotton bud to soak up a little of the liquid.  It dries quickly so you'll need to work quickly at wiping the stain.  I'd test it on an old watch face first to see if it doesn't do any harm and then have a go with it.  It's magic stuff precisely because it leaves no marks behind.

I will look into this, Stroppy.

[cdjswiss]

Follow George's instructions, but use distilled water. Your stains are probably calcium deposit from your tap water.

 

A very dilute solution of the liquid sold to remove calcium buildup in kettles followed by rinse in distilled water would be my best bet. No buds, just a soak in weak de-calc and then a rinse in distilled water (sold here in CH for the use in steam irons).

Edited January 20, 2016 by cdjswiss

[Geo]

Thank you, Geo. you don't think the application of fresh water will leave mineral deposits over the paint again? What you are suggesting sounds as if it will work.

If you live in an area where the water is hard, I would suggest using distilled water. In Scotland the water is soft and deposits are not a problem. I have used this technique many times with good results.

[stroppy]

Yep...those folks recommending using soft or distilled water are right.  Less likelihood of calcium or salt in the water causing residue.  You can buy distilled water from most supermarkets (used in clothes irons as mentioned above).  I'd still investigate the CRC co-contact cleaner.  It really is magic stuff BUT do try it on an old watch face first.

[bobm12]

Hi stroppy, remember that all dials are not made the same, what might work on one might not work on another!

[wls1971]

I would leave it if I where you live with It. The white printing on Speedmaster dials is very delicate, I know from experience whilst cleaning a dial on a 1960's Speedy pro I used a cotton bud and distilled water and gentley swabbed the effected area and managed to wipe away about 5 seconds on the outer edge, I wouldn't even attempt to touch one now. I did once send a Speedmaster back to Omega for a service and it came back worse than yours the matt black paint on them shows marks up quite badly, I don't think they have any kind of laquer coating over the paint, I sent it back and they replaced the dial.

I have had success with a Breitling Navitimer dial that had gone a faded grey colour due to the laquer on the dial drying out. I put a very thin coating of clock oil on the surface and it restored it back to black but they do seem to have a far more robust printed surface.

[BeyondWorld]

I've used a bit of washing up liquid and luke warm water on quite a few grubby dials. As long as I'm gentle enough to not rub off any of the printing and dry it off properly afterwards with some kitchen towel, it can be quite effective. 

 

However I've never done it on anything I wasn't prepared to restore afterwards if the dial wasn't improved enough, so the risk is yours.

[Blubarb]

Thanks, guys. Some great tips there.

I am pretty sure it's mineral/calcium stains.

Why not buds, cdjswiss?

I'll first try to see if the deposits will lift with Rodico or a Bergeon 7007 adhesive cleaning stick. Distilled water and a drop of dishwashing liquid in a cup is plan B at this stage. Out of curiosity how much water? i was thinking around ¾ coffee cup and one drop.

My gut feeling here is that the distilled water itself will wipe away the salts and calcium clean and not leave any residue.

Cheers

[Blubarb]

I would leave it if I where you live with It. The white printing on Speedmaster dials is very delicate, I know from experience whilst cleaning a dial on a 1960's Speedy pro I used a cotton bud and distilled water and gentley swabbed the effected area and managed to wipe away about 5 seconds on the outer edge, I wouldn't even attempt to touch one now. I did once send a Speedmaster back to Omega for a service and it came back worse than yours the matt black paint on them shows marks up quite badly, I don't think they have any kind of laquer coating over the paint, I sent it back and they replaced the dial.

I have had success with a Breitling Navitimer dial that had gone a faded grey colour due to the laquer on the dial drying out. I put a very thin coating of clock oil on the surface and it restored it back to black but they do seem to have a far more robust printed surface.

Thank you. I am hoping a 20 year old dial as this is will not be as sensitive as a Speedy dial of the age you refer to.

[Blubarb]

I have also read that baby oil lightly applied with a bud might also work. Any thoughts or experience on that?

[anilv]

The first thing I would do is dab the area with some Rodico. Don't press it hard, you dont want to lift the paint!.. just touch a bit again and again.

 

You'll want to use fresh rodico.

 

If its not so noticeable as it stands now you may see an improvement.

 

Anil

[SSTEEL]

If Rodico doesn't work, I have had success using a spectacles impregnated wet wipe, cutting a strip, and making a fine tipped end using peg wood.

[cdjswiss]

Why not buds, cdjswiss?

 

On some dials buds can cause damage (see previous post by wls1971). A very soft artists brush is the best way to apply a little wiping action. This would be the only addition to my suggestion to rinse in very dilute calcium remover. But try first with distilled water and a soft brush: Windsor and Newton water colour brush size 4 or 5

http://www.winsornewton.com/row/shop/brushes/water-colour/professional-water-colour-squirrel-brushes/pure-squirel-pointed-wash-brush-pure-squirrel-pointed-wash-brushes-size-0-brush-5250300

or equivalent.

[wls1971]

I have also read that baby oil lightly applied with a bud might also work. Any thoughts or experience on that?

As I mentioned before I've used oil to restore a Breitling dial its important not to get any on the luminous paint so you have to be very careful its also worth noting that on a dial that is matt black it will change the look of the dial it will produce a slightly shiny surface and will look a deeper black which is not a normal characteristic of a Speedmaster dial. Do a google search because it has been tried many times by others I did find a blog out there that showed a old black Heuer dial done this way it was this blog that prompted me to try on the Bretling dial and it did look far better after treatment. My feeling with Speedmaster dials is that if Omega mark them during servicing and have to replace them as they did with my watch they are delicate. It did shock me the damage I did on the older dial with I few gentle swabs the white paint lifted straight off, and yes off course it was a much old dial so manufacture will have evolved somewhat from the 60's.

I wouldn't want to use spectacle cleaning swabs either most use isopropyl alcohol as the main ingredient I think this would not be good for the white paint on the dial which is printed directly on to the matt black surface.

Its easy to see marks when you view a dial close up what does it look like at normal viewing distance ?  obviously you have to weigh up the possible gain against the fact you may make it far worse. Its easy for me to be interested to see the result you achieve but its not my £3000 pound watch. if the worst came to the worst I think you would probably be looking at £200-300 for a replacement dial.

Sleep on it and be careful.

[JimInOz]

I knew I'd had this problem before, just took time for me to remember it.

 

See here on ΩForums.

 

https://omegaforums.net/threads/ever-had-it-serviced.24210/page-2#post-282164

 

Good luck with it John.

[Blubarb]

As I mentioned before I've used oil to restore a Breitling dial its important not to get any on the luminous paint so you have to be very careful its also worth noting that on a dial that is matt black it will change the look of the dial it will produce a slightly shiny surface and will look a deeper black which is not a normal characteristic of a Speedmaster dial. Do a google search because it has been tried many times by others I did find a blog out there that showed a old black Heuer dial done this way it was this blog that prompted me to try on the Bretling dial and it did look far better after treatment. My feeling with Speedmaster dials is that if Omega mark them during servicing and have to replace them as they did with my watch they are delicate. It did shock me the damage I did on the older dial with I few gentle swabs the white paint lifted straight off, and yes off course it was a much old dial so manufacture will have evolved somewhat from the 60's.

I wouldn't want to use spectacle cleaning swabs either most use isopropyl alcohol as the main ingredient I think this would not be good for the white paint on the dial which is printed directly on to the matt black surface.

Its easy to see marks when you view a dial close up what does it look like at normal viewing distance ?  obviously you have to weigh up the possible gain against the fact you may make it far worse. Its easy for me to be interested to see the result you achieve but its not my £3000 pound watch. if the worst came to the worst I think you would probably be looking at £200-300 for a replacement dial.

Sleep on it and be careful.

Thanks, wis1971. Certainly agree with all you say. I've thought about the isopropyl alcohol option and have discarded it as too difficult to gauge the end result it would have on the matt dial At a normal distance it's hard to see or pick the stain and that's why I am not rushing to get the dial back out. Right now I am thinking that distilled water lighly applied with a quality brush as was suggested by another poster is my best option if some gentle dabbing of fresh Rodico doesn't work. Some pics from a little further away:

[Blubarb]

I knew I'd had this problem before, just took time for me to remember it.

 

See here on ΩForums.

 

https://omegaforums.net/threads/ever-had-it-serviced.24210/page-2#post-282164

 

Good luck with it John.

Thanks, Jim. I'll check it out now. It's a small watch world, eh?

Cheers

John

[Blubarb]

Okay, good news. It wasn't without some apprehension but I decided to act on the good advice suggested by members here at WRT. To begin with I decided on the least intrusive method first, the Rodico, but dabbing, as I suspected, lifted none of the deposited minerals. I then went to purified water and carefully applied a small drop onto the stain using a #10/0 sable brush and then immediately went over the drop with a #2 sable brush until it dried all the while applying a little pressure. It took some patience and care not to lower the #10/0 brush too low as it may well have scratched the dial. So all good and happy to live with the results. Thank you all for your interest and great advice. 

 

The golden rule: If the universe intends to conspire against you it will do so when the dial is out of it's case. Full stop.  :hot:

Cheers

John 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2016 by John Hondros