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Weekend project of upgrading the cheap baskets. I found that sometimes parts could slide under the dividers. Got this STA-Brite kit from Amazon. Comes with some flux and wire. Just slide a drop of Stay-Clean across the line you want to solder on. Dab some solder on the end of the iron and then brush it across the line. Flux is supposed to help the solder flow over stainless. Rinse baskets afterwards to wash away acidic flux. Seems to work great. 

 

671838901_IMG_0181Copy.thumb.JPG.e0bfb8def2bab5ca1efb7c76dab5e149.JPG

Edited by muddtt
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On 9/23/2022 at 5:53 PM, muddtt said:

Well this is what I've been messing with:

1) The shaft itself is true (Video). The problem is definitely in the rotor being off axis.

2) Bending the spring that presses against the basket as the seller demonstrated in his video above does indeed help. It is just a bandaid to the larger issue though.

3) The comment from the seller about something about an arrow turned out to be true (picture). When I inspected one of my baskets there was an arrow that lines up with a scribed mark in the rotor. The assembly did indeed spin better in this position compared with the other two positions. The second basket it came with didn't have an arrow, but I found it also performed better in one of the positions. 

4) I found that the rotor was heavily weighted to one side so I spent some time removing material to balance the weight more (picture). Although I feel like it did help a little, the problem with the rotor being off axis still proved to be the main culprit. I really wish I had access to a lathe so I could center the rotor better. 

 

 

 

IMG_0174.JPG

IMG_0176.JPG

You're shaft does run true mine does not. and my rotor is off as well, so how is it now? noticeably better, not that much? the rotors are definitely taped crooked. I wonder how true the baskets are Im not going to find that out until i can mount the basket to a true shaft and rotor.

Edited by jimzzilla
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2 hours ago, jimzzilla said:

You're shaft does run true mine does not. and my rotor is off as well, so how is it now? noticeably better, not that much? the rotors are definitely taped crooked. I wonder how true the baskets are Im not going to find that out until i can mount the basket to a true shaft and rotor.

Everything helps a little bit, but the fact that the rotor runs off axis really seems to prevent it from running like butter. I think it could run as is and it would work just fine, but I want to go one more step and see if a trued up rotor would really make the difference. I've been spending some time trying to design a rotor I could machine with the tools I have. I'll probably try to get to it this week and see if it makes a difference. IMG_0183.thumb.JPG.2f1da14b93dbb73735f7f1b26bfb8c13.JPGrence. 

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Well, here's an update so far.  On the left is the original rotor. The black one on the bottom is a 3D printed model of a redesigned rotor (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5535977). And above that is an aluminum rotor I made with a 3D printed cap I was going to attach to it to force the water down into the basket. The third one isn't done yet...was waiting for some hardware to come in. But I did learn something from the 3D printed model...Something about my stock shaft is messed up. I think a majority of the shaft is true, but the portion at the end where the reduced the shaft to 8mm must be cut wrong because I experience the same wobble as the original rotor. And this is confirmed by the dial indicator on the cut portion of the shaft. (**Edit: i need to explore this more, with more examination my 3D printed rotor is actually warped a bit. ABS does have a tendency to pull up and warp from the print bed.)

Second thing I learned, there is something definitely off about the baskets as well. With that wobble from the shaft, both baskets run better in one of the 3 directions, and one of the baskets runs significantly better than the other. 

 

So honestly, not really sure where to go from here unless I want to get a new shaft to solve problem #1. For now, I guess I'll just run it with the stock stuff, in the best basket position. It still works better than when I started, but it would've been nice if I could've gotten it perfect. Who knows, I'll probably order a new shaft a few moments after I post this...

 

IMG_0195.thumb.JPG.50028b1f21f372518af3d6380d5ba8b9.JPG

Edited by muddtt
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The more I look at the issues you guys are having, the more I feel I should just cobble up something myself. I’m thinking of getting the Elma basket complete (around 130GBP) and rigging up a stepper motor to drive it (which would give me the bidirectional rotation) and controlled speed for when the basket is lifted out of the solution to spin off excess fluid. The only expensive part here would be the Elma basket complete - maybe I should just pull the trigger and get it. That’ll put my backside into gear and do this

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4 minutes ago, gbyleveldt said:

The more I look at the issues you guys are having, the more I feel I should just cobble up something myself. I’m thinking of getting the Elma basket complete (around 130GBP) and rigging up a stepper motor to drive it (which would give me the bidirectional rotation) and controlled speed for when the basket is lifted out of the solution to spin off excess fluid. The only expensive part here would be the Elma basket complete - maybe I should just pull the trigger and get it. That’ll put my backside into gear and do this

This basket set from Aliexpress looks ok, but with all things AliEx things may or may not be as they appear: 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804227192349.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.34242f244ddiSC&algo_pvid=a236a129-fd26-4c6f-90a0-2c2f1e8d13be&algo_exp_id=a236a129-fd26-4c6f-90a0-2c2f1e8d13be-2&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000029096345270"}&pd

 

In my case, the issues aren't major issues anymore. The watch machine runs good enough to do the job of what it's supposed to do. I was just hoping to get it to run better. 

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4 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

The more I look at the issues you guys are having, the more I feel I should just cobble up something myself. I’m thinking of getting the Elma basket complete (around 130GBP) and rigging up a stepper motor to drive it (which would give me the bidirectional rotation) and controlled speed for when the basket is lifted out of the solution to spin off excess fluid. The only expensive part here would be the Elma basket complete - maybe I should just pull the trigger and get it. That’ll put my backside into gear and do this

Exactly the reason i potter around with different ideas, there seems to be a lot to go wrong with these machines. A nice simple well put together homemade machine thats easy to fix and replace. I've now been thinking of changing the orientation of the jar to on its side and rolling it.  Like a washing machine. Trying to decide if this tumbling action of the baskets would damage parts, I'm thinking it could. 🤔  when you get something rigged up Gert can we get a looksee. Lab emulsifiers and oxygen aerators are another option to consider. 

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6 hours ago, muddtt said:

This basket set from Aliexpress looks ok, but with all things AliEx things may or may not be as they appear: 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804227192349.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.34242f244ddiSC&algo_pvid=a236a129-fd26-4c6f-90a0-2c2f1e8d13be&algo_exp_id=a236a129-fd26-4c6f-90a0-2c2f1e8d13be-2&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000029096345270"}&pd

 

In my case, the issues aren't major issues anymore. The watch machine runs good enough to do the job of what it's supposed to do. I was just hoping to get it to run better. 

Ah, it does look good although it's only slightly cheaper than the Elma complete basket. When you consider shipping and how bad our local currency is against the USD then I'd rather just go for the Elma set to be honest. If it was a LOT cheaper that would be a different story. But thanks for the heads-up though! Looks like an interesting store for other watch tools.

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Exactly the reason i potter around with different ideas, there seems to be a lot to go wrong with these machines. A nice simple well put together homemade machine thats easy to fix and replace. I've now been thinking of changing the orientation of the jar to on its side and rolling it.  Like a washing machine. Trying to decide if this tumbling action of the baskets would damage parts, I'm thinking it could. 🤔  when you get something rigged up Gert can we get a looksee. Lab emulsifiers and oxygen aerators are another option to consider. 

Hmmm, I'm wondering if it'll be a good idea to have the basket on its side. You're tumbling the items now instead of spinning them - I suspect there's a lot more chance of parts clanging against each other or pinions catching other parts and bending. Just a guess though.

I'm still toying with the idea of my own setup. Currently the US works it just takes loooooong

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18 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

The more I look at the issues you guys are having, the more I feel I should just cobble up something myself. I’m thinking of getting the Elma basket complete (around 130GBP) and rigging up a stepper motor to drive it (which would give me the bidirectional rotation) and controlled speed for when the basket is lifted out of the solution to spin off excess fluid. The only expensive part here would be the Elma basket complete - maybe I should just pull the trigger and get it. That’ll put my backside into gear and do this

In a past life I've used Misumi automation parts to build machinery. I've had a vague notion building or modding a machine that was a bit more automated. Using the Elma basket stuff would make it relatively easy. 

Probably won't do it, too busy trying to fix watches 🙂

 

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Well here's an update and some progress on my custom rotor. So far it looks very promising. WAAYY less wobble than before. Still waiting on some hardware to come in so I can make the ears and then attach a basket. 

 

I did come upon a second issue with the machine though. Sometimes when the shaft is in the up position it'll just drop. In other words, it'll be in the dry spin cycle and just drop into the water.  Is there a way to tighten whatever is holding the shaft?

 

 

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On 9/28/2022 at 8:25 PM, muddtt said:

Well here's an update and some progress on my custom rotor. So far it looks very promising. WAAYY less wobble than before. Still waiting on some hardware to come in so I can make the ears and then attach a basket. 

 

I did come upon a second issue with the machine though. Sometimes when the shaft is in the up position it'll just drop. In other words, it'll be in the dry spin cycle and just drop into the water.  Is there a way to tighten whatever is holding the shaft?

 

 

These Allen screws put tension on the basket rod (see pic)

Sorry I haven't been around for a few days but we had a Hurricane heading for us as I live in Tampa.

That basket agitator you made muddtt looks like it works nice 😎

as I said my basket shaft is about 3 thou out

so when I can get my machine shop buddy to make one up for me I will report back.

The hurricane that was here brought everything to a halt.

swcm5.jpg

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23 minutes ago, jimzzilla said:

 

These Allen screws put tension on the basket rod (see pic)

Sorry I haven't been around for a few days but we had a Hurricane heading for us as I live in Tampa.

That basket agitator you made muddtt looks like it works nice 😎

as I said my basket shaft is about 3 thou out

so when I can get my machine shop buddy to make one up for me I will report back.

The hurricane that was here brought everything to a halt.

swcm5.jpg

I tried tightening those down a bit. Didn't seem to help. Maybe I have to do it a bit more. They sure are hard to access. Might have to cut an Allen key to make it work better. 

 

Came across this for the Vintage Elma machine that the Pearl was copied from. Some clear instructions in there. 

https://www.hswalsh.com/sites/default/files/related_files/Instructions For HC511 - Elma Super Elite Watch Cleaning Machine.pdf

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On 9/28/2022 at 9:14 AM, gbyleveldt said:

Ah, it does look good although it's only slightly cheaper than the Elma complete basket. When you consider shipping and how bad our local currency is against the USD then I'd rather just go for the Elma set to be honest. If it was a LOT cheaper that would be a different story. But thanks for the heads-up though! Looks like an interesting store for other watch tools.

Hmmm, I'm wondering if it'll be a good idea to have the basket on its side. You're tumbling the items now instead of spinning them - I suspect there's a lot more chance of parts clanging against each other or pinions catching other parts and bending. Just a guess though.

I'm still toying with the idea of my own setup. Currently the US works it just takes loooooong

How about having the baskets fixed in some way in the jar, So that they dont tumble but gravity will act upon the solution so that will wash over the baskets instead. That is a feature a standard spinning rotary machine doesnt have, and should have more damage limitation. 

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I looked closer at the Allen screws that put tension on the basket rod and they are spring loaded so tightening the screws may not have that much effect if they are just there to hold the springs in the socket to put pressure on the ball that puts pressure the basket shaft. It does tell me that when I have the new shaft made it has to be dead nuts on the O.D.

SWCM5A.jpg

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3 minutes ago, jimzzilla said:

I looked closer at the Allen screws that put tension on the basket rod and they are spring loaded so tightening the screws may not have that much effect if they are just there to hold the springs in the socket to put pressure on the ball that puts pressure the basket shaft. It does tell me that when I have the new shaft made it has to be dead nuts on the O.D.

SWCM5A.jpg

I actually just messed with mine today. Cut an allen key to fit it more easily. Key was 2.35mm/0.0925in on the flats. It made it hold the shaft much tighter. 

 

IMG_0206.thumb.JPG.d84ce1fa936053e24966f3b761d99209.JPG

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On 8/20/2022 at 4:11 PM, jimzzilla said:

I got mine via DHL early this week and I am almost done fixing things to make it right.

I am going to post things I did so as to maybe help someone else who may buy one,

best regards to you jdrichard, james.

 

Jim,

Where in Florida?  I hope not in IAN's path.  I am in Homosassa and have received my Pearl Supreme and was wondering what mods you did to improve the wiring?

Thanks

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Hello AcmeSix I hope you made it through Ian without damage. Ian here in Tampa turned out to be not that big a deal just some intense winds and rain, just the norm, but I will tell you when they first predicted Hurricane Ian was going to directly hit Tampa I was  shi*ing bricks!. Looking at the total devastation south of us I feel so lucky to have dodged the bullet. Welcome to Watch Repair Talk I came here just like you to find out more about the Janta, I have only been here for a little more than a month myself I usually hang out at WUS in the Russian watch section. I started posting on this topic on page 5 so look there for what I did to my machine, best regards AcmeSix, James.

 

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Jim,

I am just north of you in Homosassa and I drove 10 hours to get home to prepare for IAN.  Glad it missed us (feel sympathy for the hard hit areas).  I enjoyed reading about your mods.

On 9/24/2022 at 8:33 PM, muddtt said:

Weekend project of upgrading the cheap baskets. I found that sometimes parts could slide under the dividers. Got this STA-Brite kit from Amazon. Comes with some flux and wire. Just slide a drop of Stay-Clean across the line you want to solder on. Dab some solder on the end of the iron and then brush it across the line. Flux is supposed to help the solder flow over stainless. Rinse baskets afterwards to wash away acidic flux. Seems to work great. 

 

671838901_IMG_0181Copy.thumb.JPG.e0bfb8def2bab5ca1efb7c76dab5e149.JPG

Can you show us an after picture?

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Here is a picture of the balls that make contact with the basket shaft. If these balls that make contact with the shaft  are not symmetrical then couldn't it make the shaft wobble a wee bit? Something to think about. The shaft just hangs inside of the bore, the bottom of the bore is bigger than the shaft diameter providing no support.                                                                                                               

SWM1.jpg

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Ok, another attempt at 3D printing in ABS plastic. Did more work and design to keep it from warping off the build plate. There was still a tiny bit of warping, but overall ended up much flatter. Also used a brass threaded insert melted in the side for the setscrew. Overall, the results seem very good. I'll have to run it thru a few cycles to see how the ABS holds up in my solutions. I'm using the Non-ammoniated Zenith solution followed by distilled water then 99% IPA. 

The basket still works best in 1 of the 3 orientations. I was thinking of designing a 3D printed basket to remove that variable as well. 

 

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3 hours ago, jimzzilla said:

Wow.......... that is a remarkable improvement muddtt, so how does it agitate the solution does it make a lot of bubbles or foam? Very nice indeed.

Like I said, I use Zenith Non Ammoniated solution. Mostly cause its concentrated 8 to 1 mix with water so I get a lot of bang per buck and its easy to dispose of. I've only used it a couple times so still learning it. The first time I ever used it there were no bubbles. The second time I think I was going to fast and there was a lot of foam. Both of those were with the stock basket and rotor. With the redesigned rotor there was a tiny bit of foam, but I think that was mostly because I started it to fast. Once I got the speed at a nice slow pace it was running great. Some people say that used Zenith solution can gel up after a few days if you don't use it because of the bacteria that can grow in it. I haven't experienced that yet, and I've had the used solution sitting around for a couple weeks now. 

In the water and IPA there was no issues with bubble/foaming even when spinning pretty quickly. 

I'll try to grab a video tomorrow.

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12 hours ago, muddtt said:

Ok, another attempt at 3D printing in ABS plastic.

Using plastic will probably limit your choices of cleaning solutions to water based formulations. ABS will probably distort when soaked in benzine.

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