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Janta / Pearl Watch Cleaning Machine


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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/30/2021 at 8:41 AM, jdrichard said:

So from my pictures, this device has a 2amp 250v breaker, and I am in Canada 120 volts and I assume that I will draw 1.1 Amps. Does this breaker even matter?

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This unit Does Not have a 2 amp breaker, what you are looking at is the amp rating on the back of one of the switches.

This unit is un fused. the only means of disconnect is the rating of the breaker the watch machine is plugged into.

Edited by jimzzilla
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1 hour ago, jimzzilla said:

This unit Does Not have a 2 amp breaker, what you are looking at is the amp rating on the back of one of the switches.

This unit is un fused. the only means of disconnect is the rating of the breaker the watch machine is plugged into.

You are correct.  Would still like to replace the rheostat 

 

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On 8/20/2022 at 4:27 PM, GuyMontag said:

If you come across anything that might explain how mine died mid-cleaning please do share.

Line voltage issue? rheostat took a dump?, first 2 off the top of my head, just guesses.

when you see how the rheostat is wired in you will be shocked!

I'm getting ready to post my unit soon.

Hey guy's finally got my cleaner finished and I would like to share with you what I did                                                            So you know I do have a prototyping back ground and am currently a mechanical contractor(H.V.A.C.) use this information at your own risk.                     

Picture below shows the wiring compartment. I removed the wires from the terminal block and soldered the ends of all the wires and re inserted back into the block. these blocks are not too bad so long as you don't over crank the screws.

 

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I had to re do the rheostat, this is what I saw when I un wrapped the tape, yes tape!

Looks to me like an India style western union style splice, horrid! 🤣

I soldered the wires properly and sealed with some glue shrink.

 

 

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This whole machine is put together with slotted screws so on the fasteners I need greater access to I used

Allen head screws and had to re tap the threads.

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The wiring on this unit is OK meaning it is good enough, the quality of the wire is nominal

This machine draws very little amps so wiring size wise it is OK but on the other hand the assembly

process is VERY poor and that is why like everyone else said THOROUGHLY CHECK ALL THE WIRING OUT

BEFORE USING THIS MACHINE.

This unit is not grounded and does not have a fuse or breaker so I got rid of the un grounded cord and made up a 2 wire with ground power cord and installed a fuse holder in the existing hole on the base of the machine.

The 40 year old MIL-SPEC tank fuse holder dropped right in.

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I used a 1.25 amp fast blo fuse my amprobe showed .3 Amps RLA no heater and 1.4 Amps RLA with the heater and motor on. I ran the heater and motor on a full timing cycle, I think 12 minutes straight to see if I could get the 1.25 Amp fuse to give up the ghost but it was fine. Your machine may have slightly differing characteristics  (sorry for the poor pics)

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I got a picture of the motor and heater assembly just for s**ts and giggles

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All in all I just went through the weak points of this cleaning machine and tweaked what I thought needed it.

I think It runs well for what it is ......  an entry level cleaning machine.

I cannot compare it to the Elma as I do not have one to compare it too but for my use as an amatur

I think it will serve the purpose.

Here are some before and after pics, best regards, James.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

The instructions say to "Upper bush of the motor should be oiled twice a year with good quality mobileoil" Anyone know how to do this?

 

Also, my rheostat sucks when it's in the air. It's basically on or off. Is there any solution to this or replacement part that anyone recommends?

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7 hours ago, muddtt said:

Also, my rheostat sucks when it's in the air. It's basically on or off. Is there any solution to this or replacement part that anyone recommends?

Elma machines behave the same. These rheostats are no real speed control, they need the water resistance to work kind of.

On 8/21/2022 at 11:56 PM, jimzzilla said:

Picture below shows the wiring compartment. I removed the wires from the terminal block and soldered the ends of all the wires and re inserted back into the block.

Soldering the end is less secure than the bare wires and is avoided since many decades.
The solder will give in by and by, the wire can get loose, hot and even catch fire! 
Today end sleeves are used.

Frank

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6 hours ago, praezis said:

Elma machines behave the same. These rheostats are no real speed control, they need the water resistance to work kind of.

Soldering the end is less secure than the bare wires and is avoided since many decades.
The solder will give in by and by, the wire can get loose, hot and even catch fire! 
Today end sleeves are used.

Frank

Hello Frank I hope you are doing well sir. I don't think it matters as this machine draws so little amps.

by soldering the wires they become one and cannot ark in the lug and if you torque the screws properly they are secured,

I could see if this was a 10KW Heater drawing 55 amps but this is a 1.4 amp circuit. I am confidant my wiring is secure.

The only time I have had a problem with a soldered connection Is vibration.

If you have a soldered connection and the wire it is not properly secured it usually breaks at or near the terminal end.

JMO.

 

 

 

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On 9/15/2022 at 12:30 PM, muddtt said:

Also, my rheostat sucks when it's in the air. It's basically on or off. Is there any solution to this or replacement part that anyone recommends?

Is that a bad thing? When it is in the air, it needs to spin a full speed to centrifuge out all the cleaning solution. 😉

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3 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

Is that a bad thing? When it is in the air, it needs to spin a full speed to centrifuge out all the cleaning solution. 😉

Maybe cause I had heavier pocket watch parts in it, but when it goes really fast it seemed out of balance and was vibrating a lot. 

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On 9/16/2022 at 6:14 AM, praezis said:

JMO,
you are right that it is a lesser issue with lower current. 
But why not use the right procedure in every case and get accustomed to?
Even if you torque the screws properly, the solder will try to creep and avoid the pressure.

Regards, Frank

 

I agree with you Frank but personally I have not ever had issues with soldered connections being tightened down in lugs.

Here in the USA a lot of the manufactures tin the end of the wires such as ceiling fans and many light fixtures.

I mean if I wanted to go "Full Monty" I could have replaced everything but IMO it doesn't need it.

I am currently in the process of machining another basket shaft as the one that came with it is terrible,

after I finish the shaft it will be a solid machine.

Best regards to you Frank, James.

23 hours ago, muddtt said:

Maybe cause I had heavier pocket watch parts in it, but when it goes really fast it seemed out of balance and was vibrating a lot. 

The motor ramping up is to some extent the characteristics of the universal type motor used in this machine.

Everyone complains about the  rheostat as well as it doe's not have enough sensitivity but it does

work better in the solution as there is more drag on the motor. I was going to replace mine but

so far seems an impossible task to find a suitable replacement unless you are an electronics guru.

It would be nice to find one muddtt,

best regards sir, James.

P.S. It could be the basket shaft is out of round like mine and causing vibration,

how true does everything turn? check that out.

You may have to have someone make you a shaft as well.

 

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Wow, this this conversation takes me back to my years as a "wire monkey" working for a machine tool builder. 

The enemy of any connection is vibration, and every type of terminal block is susceptible to it to one extent or the other. If a machine tool started exhibiting intermittent, flaky kinds of failures, one of the first course of action would be to go through and check terminal block connections, and reseat any components that used edge connectors. 

Terminal blocks are useful if you are looking for quick assembly, or if you expect to take things apart or change them.

The most reliable type of connection is permanent. Strip the wires, twist them together, solder them, then insulate. For small gauge wire, heat shrinkable tubing for insulation is fine. I personally would not use wire nuts to provide insulation, I don't consider them reliable in a machine environment. 

We would really get serious with high voltage motor wiring in a tough, vibrating, machine tool environment. This was often heavy gauge wiring. We would strip and solder the ends together (parallel, couldn't twist), clamp the ends with a brass clamp to provide additional mechanical strength, wrap the end in soft rubber tape that fused together to provide a sealed insulated cover for the connection, and then wrap that in a high quality electrical tape.

These connections could last decades in very extreme, environments, with lots of vibration and moisture. 

Hmm, almost like a watch cleaning machine 🙂

Cheers! 

 

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Hi dadistic I hope you do well sir.

I am still a wire monkey as I am currently a H.V.A.C. contractor and I do not like wire nuts either        but they are a quick method of joining 2 wires together. I have seen them burn through if you do not twist the wires together tight enough on restive heating circuits and the wires arc internally inside the wire nut and melt the wire nut.     Like I was telling Frank this watch cleaner does not have the amp draw or vibration that I feel warrants the extra effort to do all the extra tweaks to bring it up to a MIL SPEC  standard IMO. I have only had it for more than a few weeks now and so far it has performed flawlessly except for the basket shaft that I am going to have re done.                         

Down the road If I have problems I may consider addressing It at that point. I also agree that soldering is the way to go but for me I don't want to put the extra effort into soldering all the wires., like I said if I have problems down the road then I may have to do that.

Best regards, James.

 

Edited by jimzzilla
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That's the way I handle my own stuff myself, if it doesn't need to be addressed at the moment I usually leave it,  most of the time I have other things I'd rather do.  Life is short 🙂

Perhaps someone who reads this is having strange problems with their machine, or wants to rebuild it, and my two cents might help. 

Cheers!

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5 hours ago, muddtt said:

This is what it looks like when I'm spinning parts in the air. I have the parts reasonably spread out so the weight is distributed evenly. What do you guys think?

Mine would shimmy when I was in the spin cycle (in the jar, out of solution) causing the basket to creep up out of the jar, flinging solution everywhere. Then it died. Total waste of money for me as the guy selling it refuses to answer any of my emails.

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41 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

Mine would shimmy when I was in the spin cycle (in the jar, out of solution) causing the basket to creep up out of the jar, flinging solution everywhere. Then it died. Total waste of money for me as the guy selling it refuses to answer any of my emails.

Was your machine able to control the speed when it was in the solution? 

Also, is the voltage correct for your country?

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2 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

Mine would shimmy when I was in the spin cycle (in the jar, out of solution) causing the basket to creep up out of the jar, flinging solution everywhere. Then it died. Total waste of money for me as the guy selling it refuses to answer any of my emails.

Yea. If the seller doesn't help me, hopefully Esty will. If not them I'll do a credit card charge back. Hopefully it never has to come to that.  

1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

Was your machine able to control the speed when it was in the solution? 

Also, is the voltage correct for your country?

In the solution the speed control works great. And yes the voltage is right for my country. 

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What’s the quality of the baskets like? I’ve been uhm’ing and aah’ing getting one. I know full well I’ll end up rewiring it and making it safe, but the big thing is the baskets for me. I’ve read that the coating on them flakes off and end up in the watch parts - not sure if that was an isolated case?

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Looking at the vid I would guess the basket is at fault or it’s not being secured tight. When fitting the basket it should be a a tight fit. I have owned/ used one of these machines for the last three years with no issues whatsoever..    As always it’s a case of the elimination process. Such as spin without a basket to see it all is true. Try a different basket etc etc. The pic shows the springs that add tension by pressing on the top of the basket .

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Edited by clockboy
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