Janta / Pearl Watch Cleaning Machine

[gary17]

hey guys

I have fed a cable from the rheostat and other connections in the wiring and now i need to attach it to this motor.

I have 1 blue wire and 1 brown wire. Were do i attach them in the motor is it the two black leads i have highlited???

cheers

gary

[Plato]

21 minutes ago, jdrichard said:

Went into Electronics

I think we all did!! 

[jdm]

1 hour ago, watchweasol said:

The commutator on the motor shaft  (armature) looks dirty and will be better for s clean

Looks like it took sparking or overcurrent, from prolonged stalling or other mistreating. Contact pads must be cleaned with mid grit sanding, their separation groves accurately cleaned, then winding must be be checked for reasonable resistance between pad pairs, and total insulation everywhere else. 

Same goes with the stator, then brushes must be checked and replaced at the minimum defect. 

If there is a starting capacitor it must be checked or replaced also. 

54 minutes ago, gary17 said:

 

I have fed a cable from the rheostat and other connections in the wiring and now i need to attach it to this motor.

Before wiring I suggest that you follow the steps below or give the motor to someone able to. Otherwise you risk sparks, smokes, switch trippings and the like. 

This motor stuff is not rocket science really. The relationship between current and magnetism, and consequently to electromotive force is the basis of the electrical industrial revolution, back then in the 1800s and now while leaving carbon fuels. 

Any person with a modicum of technical education should be able to at least understand the basics of it. 

[Plato]

5 minutes ago, jdm said:

Any person with a modicum of technical education should be able to at least understand the basics of it. 

Another Electrical/Electronics guy! 

[jdm]

18 minutes ago, Plato said:

Another Electrical/Electronics guy! 

Myself? Hardly. I quit (electrical) school early due to unbearable bullysm. Just mildy interested in electronics, it has never been my thing, in fact I try to avoid it when possible. But if another guy can wire and understand an home, car, machine or Arduino breadboard, I can also, of course after studying the relevant materials. Which today are about 100 times better than in my youth. 

[Plato]

9 hours ago, jdm said:

But if another guy can wire and understand an home, car, machine or Arduino breadboard, I can also, of course after studying the relevant materials.

Agreed, I've done my best to avoid programming but even the most basic electronics where I work has to now be hooked up to a pc in some form or another. Just recently started on the Arduino... it's actually quite enjoyable - with the right textbook. 

[Colditz]

On 10/29/2021 at 5:39 PM, jdrichard said:

So am I

no one answered my question

Hi JD

I do not know the answer to the question and would ask the same. You would think that as the machine has no temperature controller it could possibly damage the air spring by affecting the tempering. I think I will add a temperature controller to my machine and post on here how to do it. I assume the temperature should only need to be around 40 degrees C or so? Any one got any further advice.? I also note the heater plate is not subject to the timer and it can be switched on independent of the motor so no fanning effect. 

 

[watchweasol]

Hi regarding the drying of watch parts in the machine using the heater, It would seem that what most repairers do  is switch the heating element on during the last rinse period, this pre heats the chamber and switch it off before transferring the parts into the chamber and also do not shut the lid down but leave a centimeter or two air gap  I myself use this method and have had no problems with shellac melting, as all the while the parts are in the chamber the heat is diminishing and you have the latent heat built up in the walls of the cast jar.

[VWatchie]

On 10/29/2021 at 7:27 PM, HectorLooi said:

My mentor taught me to reassemble the balance onto the main plate, with the jewels in place

My "virtual mentor" (@nickelsilver) taught me to reassemble the balance onto the main plate, without the jewels in place. The advantage being that the staff pivots as well as the jewels (in a separate basket) get a good cleaning as well. I was worried this might damage the pivots or the HS, but so far it has worked perfectly every time, and I let the motor run pretty aggressively.

I never let the pallets near the cleaning machine as I only have bad experiences with the shellac. Never had a problem with the impulse jewels though as they've all been friction fitted. Then again, the oldest movement I've serviced was from the 60s.

[clockboy]

With regard to the drying the chamber comes up to full temperature very slowly. So this is switched on first and after three x 5 mins of washing/ rinsing it is just about ready for the drying stage. The speed of the baskets can be adjusted and I have found it best to spin slowly for a couple of minutes in the first wash before upping the speed. A slow spin for 5 mins in the heat chamber works really well with all parts dry. What I like about this machine there is nothing automatic so you are in full control of the process. If a movement is particularly dirty you can wash for longer etc etc. 

[GuyMontag]

The rheostat on my machine doesn't seem to control the speed. If I slowly turn it it takes a bit before the basket starts spinning, but it either spins at full speed or not at all. The product description doesn't mention speed control, but there are separate motor and rheostat switches, so I don't know what the purpose of the rheostat would be if there isn't a speed control. BTW, this is the one I purchased.

 

The reversing switch doesn't work as I hoped it would. I was hoping that flipping that would put it into a mode where it spins in one direction and then alternates spinning in the other direction, but instead it just changes the direction the basket spins and it stays spinning in that direction until the switch is flipped.  I'm wondering if it would be possible to modify the unit to get it to continuously alternate directions.

 

I decided to have an electrician look at it based on the posts here but all the shops I am calling don't do jobs that small...

Edited November 2, 2021 by GuyMontag

[clockboy]

This is my model with speed variation dial. Noticed the latest models do not have this feature.

 

[jdrichard]

9 minutes ago, clockboy said:

This is my model with speed variation dial. Noticed the latest models do not have this feature.

 

I have this version and it works without issue, including speed control.

[jdm]

1 hour ago, GuyMontag said:

 I'm wondering if it would be possible to modify the unit to get it to continuously alternate directions.

Sure it would be possible by adding circuitry. I think however that it wouldn't make any practical difference. 

[GuyMontag]

58 minutes ago, clockboy said:

This is my model with speed variation dial. Noticed the latest models do not have this feature.

 

Mine also has that white knob (but on the other side of the unit), but it basically just acts as an on/off switch (after first flipping the 'motor' switch on). I guess I'll send a message to the seller.

Edited November 2, 2021 by GuyMontag

[clockboy]

3 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

Mine also has that white knob (but on the other side of the unit), but it basically just acts as an on/off switch (after first flipping the 'motor' switch on). I guess I'll send a message to the seller.

Perhaps it’s because my model is a Pearl “Janta”

[jdrichard]

On 11/1/2021 at 12:13 PM, Colditz said:

Hi JD

I do not know the answer to the question and would ask the same. You would think that as the machine has no temperature controller it could possibly damage the air spring by affecting the tempering. I think I will add a temperature controller to my machine and post on here how to do it. I assume the temperature should only need to be around 40 degrees C or so? Any one got any further advice.? I also note the heater plate is not subject to the timer and it can be switched on independent of the motor so no fanning effect. 

 

Let me know when you have added the temperature controller with a thermistor and digital temp display...building a Cadillac of a system 

[praezis]

18 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

The rheostat on my machine doesn't seem to control the speed.

Did you test spinning in air or immerged in the fluid?

I can only speak about Elma: speed control only works in conjunction with the fluid resistance. 

Frank

[GuyMontag]

4 hours ago, praezis said:

Did you test spinning in air or immerged in the fluid?

I can only speak about Elma: speed control only works in conjunction with the fluid resistance. 

Frank

It was only in air, so will give a try in fluid. I had thought of that but I saw someone else had mentioned that they put it on slow when drying, which would be in air so I figured that something is wrong on mine.

[jdrichard]

My machine has a rheostat that clicks then rotates around 45 deg before the motor starts spinning. Then It does ok for the remainder of the degrees. So it does run slowly when it rotates at it’s slowest.

[VWatchie]

On 11/1/2021 at 11:40 PM, clockboy said:

A slow spin for 5 mins in the heat chamber works really well with all parts dry.

That was a really nice post, and I share your experience and agree completely! The only thing I do differently is the time in the heat chamber. I overdid the time it in the beginning and it softened the shellac, so for this reason I now only spin the basket in the heat chamber for about two minutes, and it seems to do the job perfectly. I guess it depends on how warm the chamber becomes and I wouldn't be surprised if it varies from one machine to another and the age of the machine. Mine is a 70 year old Elma.

[jdrichard]

Ok, here are the one instructions for my machine. Note the use of petroleum in the rinsing jars...makes me a bit nervous regarding FIRE situation! Thoughts about their documented cleaning sequence??? 

[jdm]

1 hour ago, jdrichard said:

Note the use of petroleum in the rinsing jars...makes me a bit nervous regarding FIRE situation! 

Petroleum is necessary both as a potent degreaser, and rinser for ammonia based solutions. If you are nervous about having it close to an electrical device, do not turn it on, or just use a normal cleaning jar in conjunction with flammable fluids. Lack of machine swish swash will not make any difference. 

[clockboy]

Yes on the instructions I got when I purchased suggested Petroleum but Imignored it. 

[gary17]

hey

well that went well. Motor went bang and smoked.So now to find someone who can rebuild it.

cheers

gary