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Pinning hairspring on balance cock


LittleWatchShop
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For those balance wheels where the hairspring is pinned rather than studded, what is the preferred method of reinserting the pin?

1) Reuse the pin that came out

2) Use a fresh tapered pin (long) and cut it once inserted

I find that option 1 is quite challenging, even though I have done it a couple of times.  Option 2 (which I used today) gives far more control while inserting the pin.  But when done, you have to cut it.  It is an additional challenge to find a tool in the drawer that will cut the pin but is not the size of a monkey wrench!  Electronic dykes designed to cut fine geometries (pins in ICs, etc) was made to work, but still too big IMO.

I think (with my limited experience) that the pinned cases are on cheaper movements.  Correct me if I am wrong.  Maybe antique pocket watches are pinned...dunno.  So, maybe this problem is not of the general fare.

I have a bunch of brass tapered pins that was part of my inheritance.  Today, I wanted to turn the end of one of these pins to be a little bit thinner to use in the above-stated situation.  That is a challenge on a lathe because the collet is not designed to handle a tapered win.  What I did was to install the pin on the lathe and even though it extended beyond the collet maybe 150 mm, I used a diamond sharpener and my finger to provide an abrasive action to thin the end of the pin.  This was a kludge in my view, but it worked.  There must be a better way.

 

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40 minutes ago, jdm said:

Coincidentally I've posted that recently. Here how it's taught in watchmaking school:

https://watchmakingjourney.com/2014/08/16/last-week-final-project-colleting-and-studding-hairsprings/

 

 

40 minutes ago, jdm said:

Coincidentally I've posted that recently. Here how it's taught in watchmaking school:

https://watchmakingjourney.com/2014/08/16/last-week-final-project-colleting-and-studding-hairsprings/

 

I have tried this task many times and failed. It is however a skill worth learning because hairsprings are difficult to source and I have many but without a collet. Thanks for sharing 

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I reuse the old pin if it is not damaged. I used to use my tweezers to insert it in the hole but the pin tends to swivel around and fly off.

Then I learnt a trick from Nucejoe, which works amazingly well. He taught me to put a little dab of grease on an oiler and stick the end of the pin to it, then dangle the tip of the pin over the hole and guide it in. And every since, re-pinning a hairspring is no longer daunting. 

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1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

I reuse the old pin if it is not damaged. I used to use my tweezers to insert it in the hole but the pin tends to swivel around and fly off.

Then I learnt a trick from Nucejoe, which works amazingly well. He taught me to put a little dab of grease on an oiler and stick the end of the pin to it, then dangle the tip of the pin over the hole and guide it in. And every since, re-pinning a hairspring is no longer daunting. 

You might find rodico work as well or better than grease, worth a try.

I got no lathe and sharpen tips of old pins with backward strokes on a fine sandpaper, flies off couple times,but as long as you can find it one pin would do.

Regs

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6 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

For those balance wheels where the hairspring is pinned rather than studded, what is the preferred method of reinserting the pin?

Coincidentally I've posted that recently. Here how it's taught in watchmaking school:

https://watchmakingjourney.com/2014/08/16/last-week-final-project-colleting-and-studding-hairsprings/

 

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9 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Then I learnt a trick from Nucejoe, which works amazingly well.

Wow...indeed it works!  I unpinned and then re-pinned this morning using this technique.  Nice!

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I will remember this for next time.  I just got done re-pinning a hairspring on a Swiss cylinder ébauche. Using tweezers for this is only good if you like looking for pins and torturing yourself.  Thanks for the tip, gentlemen! 

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There must be a tweezer designed with a flat end and a notch to be used for tightening the pin after insertion, or for removing. Such a tool would be easy to make.  Hmmm...I will ponder.

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20 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

There must be a tweezer designed with a flat end and a notch to be used for tightening the pin after insertion, or for removing. Such a tool would be easy to make.  Hmmm...I will ponder.

I use a cheap regulare pair of tweezers to tighten the pin, one prong pushing on unsharpened end of the pin , other prong on the other side of the stud. Hold your tweezers a bit unlevel so you wont obstruct the sharpened end. 

Regs

 

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For pinning at the collet, in school we modified a pair of #5 tweezers, blunting them somewhat and then shortening one tip; this allows the long tip to push while the short one still has some purchase on the collet, leaving the hole free. It would be hard to make a slotted tweezer that would work at that dimension, but they could be useful elsewhere nonetheless. I have pliers I have modified as such for removing and replacing pins on clock movements.

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2 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Here is the idea I am trying to convey.  Here there is no need to tilt the tweezer.

Your idea is perfect, however, 

2 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

 It would be hard to make a slotted tweezer that would work at that dimension

Nickelsilver said it better than I can. A DIY is hard.

I think there must be something suitable produced at sometime, I just haven't seen one.

Regs

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I have a flat nosed plier with a slot cut in it to press out and push in clock pins. But I don't use it much anymore. I simply tap pins out with a small hammer.

I found that many hairspring pins are usually situated near a pillar or post, which I can use as a fulcrum point for a small screwdriver to lever out the pin. Especially in Timexes. I don't know if they were deliberately designed this way or it just happens to be. I find that levering gives a better controlled force and the pin never flies off into oblivion. 

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46 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

I have a flat nosed plier with a slot cut in it to press out and push in clock pins. But I don't use it much anymore. I simply tap pins out with a small hammer.

I found that many hairspring pins are usually situated near a pillar or post, which I can use as a fulcrum point for a small screwdriver to lever out the pin. Especially in Timexes. I don't know if they were deliberately designed this way or it just happens to be. I find that levering gives a better controlled force and the pin never flies off into oblivion. 

Do you remove the pin while the cock is still mounted?

I have not done it that way and as a result...placing the cock upside down, and first pressing on the regulator key and turning it often dislodges the regulator from the jewel "thingy" damn, I do not have all of the terms in my head.  I was thinking that if I removed the pin while mounted, I could simply slide the hairpsring out of the regulator.  This is probably covered in a book I have...I should read it before being lazy and posting....grrr.

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 I put the cock with balance attached back on the mainplate, everything else removed and out of the way. you would have better access and control, then any final touches hairspring coil might need, level, centered....  and rinse.

If its not mounted on the mainplate, what is keeping it put? 

 

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2 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

If its not mounted on the mainplate, what is keeping it put? 

Here in the USA, I can simply answer: I plead the 5th amendment.  Or said another way, I refuse to answer on the grounds that I might incriminate myself.

LOL...your answer is quite helpful.

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The second picture shows pretty much what Nickelsilver described.

I am going to make me one like the first one.

Thanks for sharring. 

Regs

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