How to tell if a watch serviced?

[khang]

Hello everyone, I hope you all are doing well.

As I asked in the title, is there a way to tell if a watch/movement serviced?
 

Around 3 months ago, I have visited Istanbul of Turkey and had 2 of my Leopards serviced. Both had small issues, one of them goes too fast (around 15mins a day, probably magnetized) and the other, when you turn the crown, the rotor spins too, normally it should wind and even there is no power it does this. I thought at least the rotor issue will be solved once serviced but no.

I have no idea where the store was, my colleague took me there. The store owner, a young guy charged me around $45 for both. After a week I received them. And now I am suspicious and of course there’s no way to go back but for future I am wondering if there is a way to tell. Which part should we check or solely trust the watchmaker?

Wish all a great day/night ahead.

[Nucejoe]

 Rotor turning as you give the watch a manual wind or helicoptering as some like to call it, is indicative of a fault in selfwinder module, worn or real dirty reversers or worn/ broken jewel hole, perhaps even a broken arbour.   Often a clean& lube treated with epilame fixodrop or equalent is all that reversers need.

 

[khang]

Thank you for your reply Nucejoe. As you said it is helicoptering when I manually wind it. If I wear it and winds automatically, there’s no issue, works nice and keeps time accurately.

Again thank you for the information.

[Nucejoe]

 What kind of actual power reserve does your watch have, ideally a healthy autowinder should fully wind  or wind close to its nominal power reserve with five hours on wrist. 

 

[khang]

1 minute ago, Nucejoe said:

 What kind of actual power reserve does your watch have, ideally a healthy autowinder should fully wind  or wind close to its nominal power reserve with five hours on wrist. 

 

If I am not wrong, it must 36 hours once fully winded but never seen it goes that long. 24 hours or less in my experience.

I doubt the watchmaker greased the main spring, I even doubt he did anything, just unscrewed the back, wrote some date with sharpie and done . That’s actually I wanted to if there’s a way to check if I watch serviced or faked by the store.

Again appreciated your reply Nucejoe.

[jdm]

1 hour ago, khang said:

That’s actually I wanted to if there’s a way to check if I watch serviced or faked by the store.

Checking on a timegrapher would probably give a good clue. However, a conscientious repairers would not deliver an automatic with bad helicoptering before having tried all what is possible and having explained to the owner about it.

I think that $45 for professionally servicing two watches is unreasonably little, no matter where in the world.

[khang]

2 minutes ago, jdm said:

Checking on a timegrapher would probably give a good hint.

.

.

I think that $45 for professionally servicing two watch is unreasonably little,  no matter where in the world.

Dear Jdm, thank you for your contribution.

That is a good point I didn’t think about. Once I got my hands on a timegrapher I sure will check it.

Honestly I didn’t even try to bargain or said anything about the price, he told me the cost, I just handed over my watches . And yes you are right, that is a little money for servicing a pair of watches. Maybe that’s what he does, walk-in clueless customer, unscrew the back, scribble some stuff inside the cover, done .

[nickelsilver]

One easy check is the balance jewels, if they are clean and oiled properly that's a good sign. But- some unscrupulous people know that, and might service the balance cock jewel (imagining it's an easily accessible shock jewel), leaving the rest in its state.

 

Nothing against Turkey but an overhaul costs a certain amount for a reason; the watchmaker has most likely spent years in education and have 10s of thousands in equipment, and to service a regular watch impeccably might do 2 or 3 per day. Maybe your guy cleaned it assembled and oiled what was accessible. Maybe they didn't clean it and added oil where accessible. Maybe they painstakingly cleaned every part in clean benzine and oiled properly. Maybe they used olive oil and lanolin for grease. I doubt they cleaned it in industry standard solutions in a proper machine, or used fresh Moebius oils, in a clean room on a clean bench, timing on a quality machine in 6 positions, but maybe they did?

 

45 bucks for two overhauls, 22.50 apiece, it's easily 10x less than standard Europe price for a simple watch.

[khang]

Thank you for your reply and contribution Nickelsilver.

My colleague did the talking part with the guy so I don’t know what they talk but I doubt he invested that much money and time in his business, at least seemingly the shop was not that well equipped.

I wandered around a couple of shops before I leave and couldn’t see anything matching industry standards (no offense members from Turkey, nothing against the country or it’s people) or at least what you may expect from a decent shop.

Now I started to think he may dipped the movement in lighter fluid after reading clean benzine in your message. Have seen some not so clever people on YouTube recommending it as a way of maintenance.

I wish there was an easy way to check it. You have to have some equipment to be able to check. Better I bite the bullet, buy my own equipment and learn how to take care of own .

Edited September 17, 2021 by khang

[jdm]

18 hours ago, khang said:

Now I started to think he may dipped the movement in lighter fluid after reading clean benzine in your message. Have seen some not so clever people on YouTube recommending it as a way of maintenance.

Playing devil's advocate, that's exactly the correct method for some watches. However you turn it, spending more than the material value of a watch for servicing is not something smart IMHO.

 

18 hours ago, khang said:

I wish there was an easy way to check it. You have to have some equipment to be able to check.

You have been told a couple of very easy ways already.  You can ask a reputable watchmaker to check, and may not be even charged, because it takes less than 5 minutes to do both.

 

18 hours ago, khang said:

Better I bite the bullet, buy my own equipment and learn how to take care of own .

It takes more than just equipment, as it's mainly disposition and perseverance. Good luck.

[khang]

7 minutes ago, jdm said:

Playing devil's advocate, that's exactly the correct method for some watches.

Seriously? I thought it will melt the shellac, separate or move jewels and was making fun of those people  really embarrassed. 

 

10 minutes ago, jdm said:

You have been told a couple of very easy ways already.

True, I appreciate everybody’s contribution, and again would like thank everyone. Hopefully beginners like myself will benefit too.

Thank you Jdm .

[jdm]

4 hours ago, khang said:

I thought it will melt the shellac.

That is alchool, and even for that it takes time.

[KarlvonKoln]

Only $45?  That's less than I charge, and I am told I charge very little.  After reading what was written above, I can understand why you are concerned, Khang.  Learning to be a watchmaker will teach a person to repair watches.  But one must also learn to be a good business owner also.  A watchmaker can be a good businessman by explaining how he can repair a watch, and what his prices are for standard things, and what he charges for a complex problem.  And he will do this before fixing.  It is important to put the customer at ease, to show the customer that you are a professional, and that the customer will know how much they may need to spend before the work is done.  
I always examine a watch closely, then communicate with the customer.  I make sure I know what work will need to be done so I can tell them, and explain what I will do and what I will charge.  And when they agree to that, then I begin the work.  If it is a simple cleaning I will tell them the cost up front, but if I see something that needs to be addressed as I prepare to clean (as sometimes happens) I always tell the customer.  It should always be their choice.  I believe good communication is very important.  And I always place one of my business cards in the package with their finished watch or clock, so that they may contact me again, even if only to complain if something I did was not satisfactory.  This is important too, because if it happens that the repair work I have done has not fixed the problem completely, then the customer must have the means to tell me.  (This is also why it is important to understand the watch's problem as thoroughly as possible.)  Another mark of a true professional is being prepared to face a shortcoming with grace and diplomacy.  If one can make a displeased customer happy again, and willing to return, that is very good business.  I have had to do this in other work in the past, and even though it is hard to face an angry customer, I believe it is something all business people should do.  It is a good thing to learn, and can teach you how to do better.
From what you have written, this watchmaker you visited told you nothing of what he would do or how he worked, nor gave you means to contact him.  It is no wonder you are apprehensive, he has not shown you any measure of professionalism.  In short, if he is a very good business person as well as a good watchmaker, you should not have to wonder if he has serviced your watches.  You will either find yourself pleased with how well they run and how he has cleaned and polished them up, or he will explain why he could not repair them - and is not charging you - and will refer you to someone who specializes in your brand of watch and would fix it for you. 

[khang]

Dear KarlvonKoln, thank you very much for your thoughts and reply.
As you stated, the core of the problem is professionalism, I think. Because, again as you said, a good business, no matter what business they are in, should not leave any questions in the customer's mind.

I was residing in Japan for quite a while and was nagging about the prices, even a simple battery replacement you will be charged around 1000¥-1500¥ (roughly $10-$15), and this was until I learn more about the process. An old watchmaker let me watch the process. It was a Citizen digital watch from my childhood and my goodness, even the battery cover lock hold by an extremely fragile lock. After carefully taking out the dead battery and replacing it with the new fresh one, he touched the watch back (electronic board) with his tweezers and asked him what he did. He said that he shortcut the board. Cleaned it properly, re-lube the gasket, and put it together. So it was not like replacing a triple-A remote control battery. There are lots of small details and never felt bad about paying what he asked for.

My latest experience though was a disaster (of course there was a language barrier too). I cannot agree with what you wrote more. The purpose of this topic is also the reason for his lack of professionalism. I learned my lesson, you really get what you pay for.

Again thank you for your precious time and reply KarlvonKoln. Have a great weekend ahead.