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Fitting different style shock springs


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I was asked to restore a nurses fob watch (sentimental reasons). The stem was broken trying to get the watch running. !!!!!. The movement is a pin lever BFG 844 and a couple of surprises were found. The first being it is jewelled and the middle three jewels set on the top plate are capped so I had to lubricate before assembling. The other being the upper and lower shock springs are different and I suspect the top spring is a replacement BUT it works. The watch runs fine and good readings for a pin lever see pics.

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Following this, for sentimental reasons.  My mom plans to bring me my late aunt Mary's fob watch.  She was a nurse also.  I am prepared to do the best job I have ever done with it.  But I don't yet have it and do not yet know why it stopped running.
Could we see pics of the completed and cased watch also?  And I was just curious: did you find what jammed up the works so badly that the stem broke from trying to wind it?  Was it just wound all the way without being able to run?
And while I'm at it: Salud! To the nurses!  They brave much danger and sacrifice much for us!

 

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20 minutes ago, KarlvonKoln said:

Following this, for sentimental reasons.  My mom plans to bring me my late aunt Mary's fob watch.  She was a nurse also.  I am prepared to do the best job I have ever done with it.  But I don't yet have it and do not yet know why it stopped running.
Could we see pics of the completed and cased watch also?  And I was just curious: did you find what jammed up the works so badly that the stem broke from trying to wind it?  Was it just wound all the way without being able to run?
And while I'm at it: Salud! To the nurses!  They brave much danger and sacrifice much for us!

 

Yes I will put up pics when time. The issue with the watch is it was really dirty and I suspect it has been a long period between services. 

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On 9/15/2021 at 1:25 PM, clockboy said:

The stem was broken trying to get the watch running. !!!!!

As the saying goes: "If it is not possible by force, it's possible by more force" 😉

How did you deal with the broken stem?

Edited by VWatchie
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Purchased a new one from Cousins.
There is however an issue while on test overnight it stopped. After a lot of fiddling I stripped down again and found a tooth  broken off the barrel. I normally check all of the wheels and pivots when I strip with my microscope but it’s light ring had broken and so I did not inspect closely. 
My mistake and since found the fault re microscope it’s light source is via fibre optics cable and the units projector lamp had failed. The new lamp and barrel are on order.

what fun

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21 hours ago, clockboy said:

... After a lot of fiddling I stripped down again and found a tooth  broken off the barrel.

So glad you were able to find the issue.  I think it's @HectorLooi who is also the dentist; he must feel right at home when encountering broken teeth. 🙂
I see a few of those now and then too.  The first time I had a jammed up watch, and saw the second wheel had a broken tooth, I later found that tooth wedged in a pinion, held in there by another wheel's tooth.  Being as paranoid as I am, any time I see a broken tooth now, I will search the whole movement as I strip it down, looking for the tooth and giving it no unsearched crevasse to hide in.
I wish I knew when my mother will be sending over my aunt's nurse's-watch.  I'd only seen it a couple times when I was little, upon getting injured or sick.  She only wore it at work, and when I got older, healthier, and less clumsy, I never saw her at work after a certain time.  But I think the watch looked very much like the one in your pictures, though I do not know what maker.  

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11 hours ago, KarlvonKoln said:

So glad you were able to find the issue.  I think it's @HectorLooi who is also the dentist; he must feel right at home when encountering broken teeth. 🙂 

Haha. Yes. I've also encountered broken teeth in a Seiko barrel and crooked teeth in the contrate wheel of a Russian Navy clock.

I have a theory why barrel teeth break. The barrel cap must have been stubborn and someone must have used a tweezer or vise to press down on the teeth to get the cap off.

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5 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

The barrel cap must have been stubborn and someone must have used a tweezer or vise to press down on the teeth to get the cap off.

That sounds like a plausible explanation, and like my method for removing the barrel lid. That is, pressing down on the teeth (with my brass tweezers). So far, it's been working without causing any damage, but it made me wonder if there's a safer method to remove the barrel lid?

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7 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Haha. Yes. I've also encountered broken teeth in a Seiko barrel and crooked teeth in the contrate wheel of a Russian Navy clock.

I have a theory why barrel teeth break. The barrel cap must have been stubborn and someone must have used a tweezer or vise to press down on the teeth to get the cap off.

I suspect the damage has been caused by the owner of the watch. The customer admitted the stem was broken trying to get the watch running and without doubt someone has been fiddling with the movement before myself. However I should have noticed the damage before assembling. My mistake and more anticipated cost for the repair. 

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9 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I have a theory why barrel teeth break. The barrel cap must have been stubborn and someone must have used a tweezer or vise to press down on the teeth to get the cap off.

Hmmm...you know, I could see how that would happen.  If a barrel cover fits that tightly, as some do, all the force required to free it would be focused at that one point where the access hole is, becoming the fulcrum of our lever.  If we encounter a barrel cover that does not come off easily, we must be very careful.  Thank you for pointing that out.  It seems logical.

Edited by KarlvonKoln
edited for clarity
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16 hours ago, VWatchie said:

So far, it's been working without causing any damage, but it made me wonder if there's a safer method to remove the barrel lid?

I've been thinking about a safer method too. I was thinking of getting a sheet of Perspex and drilling a snug fitting hole, then insert the barrel into hole. This way, all the teeth will be supported and the force will be distributed.

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On 9/20/2021 at 6:33 PM, KarlvonKoln said:

Hmmm...you know, I could see how that would happen.  If a barrel cover fits that tightly, as some do, all the force required to free it would be focused at that one point where the access hole is, becoming the fulcrum of our lever.  If we encounter a barrel cover that does not come off easily, we must be very careful.  Thank you for pointing that out.  It seems logical.

 

On 9/20/2021 at 2:38 PM, VWatchie said:

That sounds like a plausible explanation, and like my method for removing the barrel lid. That is, pressing down on the teeth (with my brass tweezers). So far, it's been working without causing any damage, but it made me wonder if there's a safer method to remove the barrel lid?

 

On 9/21/2021 at 7:34 AM, HectorLooi said:

I've been thinking about a safer method too. I was thinking of getting a sheet of Perspex and drilling a snug fitting hole, then insert the barrel into hole. This way, all the teeth will be supported and the force will be distributed.

I place the complete barrel in a tiny ziplock bag, and use my thumbnails to press down on the rim/teeth of the barrel on a hard flat surface. This allows me to remove the lid from the barrel safely, and the ziplock bag prevents the lid from flying off with too much force and the mainspring uncoiling catastrophically.

I find this more controlled than using tweezers to press on the rim/ teeth of the barrel.

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5 minutes ago, ifibrin said:

I place the complete barrel in a tiny ziplock bag, and use my thumbnails to press down on the rim/teeth of the barrel on a hard flat surface.

So, I basically use the same method but without the ziplock back and a brass tweezers instead of my nails. I've seen other methods, but only remember they seemed awkward and maybe less safe.

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1 minute ago, VWatchie said:

So, I basically use the same method but without the ziplock back and a brass tweezers instead of my nails. I've seen other methods, but only remember they seemed awkward and maybe less safe.

I use the ziplock bag after a lid flew off once, and the arbor and mainspring shot out, up to the ceiling! Ok, maybe that’s an exaggeration but it still came out with a lot of force and the mainspring was coned.

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On 9/20/2021 at 12:33 PM, KarlvonKoln said:

 If a barrel cover fits that tightly, as some do, all the force required to free it would be focused at that one point where the access hole is, becoming the fulcrum of our lever.

Exactly. It's recommendable to press the barrel sitting on an holed die. These are easy to make with a piece aluminium drilled with the most size, e.g. increments of 0.5mm.

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