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Timex Automatic with Jammed Day Wheel


DPhillip
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Hello, it has been a while since I have been on the forum but I am glad to see there is some discussion of Timex watches.

While at an antique store a week or so ago I found this really cool Timex automatic for about $35 - and it seemed to be working so I liberated it.  At the time I saw the crystal is cracked and rough but figured I could fine another one.

I did not have a Timex of any kind but wanted to find one, especially an automatic with a working movement.  However on getting home I realized that while the watch is trying to work, but the day wheel can't move.  The Friday you see in the picture is actually bumped upwards from below, and therefore the wheel can't spin forward (I am assuming the day and date are on separate wheels but that may be wrong).  I can only move the hands part-way around the dial before they stop.  The second hand goes around and clearly the watch winds when you shake it.

This is a rather hilarious example of caveat emptor - I should have been more careful to check the watch thoroughly at the shop.  But now I want to fix it.  So, what could have happened to cause this, and can I possibly fix it myself by replacing the day wheel (or day/date wheel if they are somehow one item)?  And is this a common scenario?  I read online that Timex day-date wheels are to be avoided (naturally I read that after buying it LOL) but I don't know if that is really true).

The coding at the bottom of the dial is 46950 - 10978, so I know this has a 109 movement and dates from 1978.  I am guessing it is a Viscount model but am not sure.  I appreciate any thoughts and suggestions on fixing this watch and perhaps some idea of the movement and if it was normally a good one.

 

Thanks!

Duane

 

Timex 46950_10978.jpg

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I suspect the watch was dropped or had a blow to the crystal which caused the crack which is rather self evident. But, what happened inside is that the day disk skipped over the detent spring. This is why it is out of position. Further the spring and or part of the day disk is broken off and is causing the jam why the hands do not move freely.

You are going to have to open it up to find out why.  The good thing is that you can sperate the movement from the top plate.  There will be one small screw to remove and four metal tabs that hold it in place.  First you must remove the hands.

Be careful when bending back the tabs as they are soft and can break easily.  Once sperate you can see the underside of the day and date disk ( yes there are two and not one ).  what you want to see is that the detent spring for each is correctly in position. 

As for that crystal.  Here is a tip most don't know until it is too late.  You see that silver reflector ring?  you most remove it from inside the case before you attempt to lift the crystal. Otherwise you will either crack the crystal, shout a number of expletives' or both!

 

Good luck.

 

Here is one in my collection.

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Thanks JerseyMo - and also thanks for the great photo.  Based on this, I'm goin' in.  I will take photos and post.  If the day disk is indeed broken is it possible to find a replacement?  It may take some time before I can start as I need to get hand removal tools.  I did see a video on Youtube telling viewers to get a special tool on ebay to remove the crystal and reflector ring.  But those can come off from the inside if I understand you correctly, after taking the movement out of the case.  Thanks again!

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Wow, thank you Sir.  I have the band and back off: turns out the case was made in Taiwan per the markings on the inside of the case back.  I need to figure out how this stem comes out and then pull the movement hopefully before the end of Labor Day weekend.  I will take some better photos.

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the stem is held in by set-lever and screw. unwind the screw a few turns and the stem will slip out. try to not remove the screw if possible.  

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Thanks - haven' t had the chance to do that yet but will asap.  Yes I figured actually removing the screw would be a bad idea.  Not sure I have the right size screwdriver; I believe it will need a #5.  And I need a tool or tools to remove the hands; will have to order.  Not sure yet but my guess is that I have to raise tabs to remove the movement and again for the face to get at the date wheels.

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I was able to remove the stem without difficulty.  I had the correct size screwdriver and once I got it loose, I went about 1.5 turns.  Hopefully the stem will go back in as easily.  I have uploaded photos of the movement with the rotor in a couple of different positions and a photo of the watch back interior with stem.  The next thing is to remove the movement and then get at the date and day wheels.  

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I noted that there is dirt or debris on the movement under the rotor - with a Timex, is there a particular way to clean the movement without total disassembly?  

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Many people subscribe to the dunk and swish method for cleaning a Timex. You basically remove the hands, dial, motion works then dunk the whole movement into the cleaning solution of your choice and swish it around to dissolve any dried up lubrication. 

Taking apart a Timex is easy. Putting it back together is tricky. Watchmakers trained in conventional methodologies find it extremely irritating. It simply rubs them the wrong way.

If this watch is of any great sentimental value to you, I suggest you get a junk Timex from eBay and practise on that first, because the chance of damaging it is very high. ( Because you threw it across the room or took a hammer and smashed it. )

But once you get the hang of it, you'll be hooked. Don't say I didn't warn you. 🙃

 

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LOL, no sentimental value on this one.  I just bought it recently because I thought it was cool looking and it seemed to work as soon as I picked it up.  Unfortunately my wife was there and she thinks it works... Thus I must make it so!

Anyway I just want to replace the day wheel - if at all possible I do not want to take the movement apart and I am hoping that won't be needed.  Clean and swish sounds good.  It will be a big moment just getting the hands and face off without breaking anything.  I am mindful of the tabs holding the movement in and the need to treat them gently.  Thanks for your reply!

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hand removal on vintage Timex is very easy and can be done with tweezers. be sure to protect the dial with a thin strip of plastic.  you just cut a v slot in it to slip under the hands.  

 

 

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Well I have taken the movement out, the hands and face off, and the hands off.  The date wheel is metal and looks fine.  The plastic day wheel is split in two and crumpled.  I do not notice any apparent damage to the movement.  Here are some photos to see...

The watch markings indicate it is Taiwanese-made.

I understand there is a special plyer-like tool with a circular jaw that is needed to remove the crystal and the ring surrounding it.  Attempting to move the crystal by hand just cracks it further.

I will be interested in finding out, when I get to reassembly, whether the day and date wheels need to synchronized to the hands in some way.  I noted the position of the hands as 3:20 when I removed them.  I could not shift them much beyond that as the day wheel was basically sticking out of the day window.

Any other advice much appreciated; also, if I should be posting this thread on another part of the site to be 'correct' under the rules please let me know.

Thank you,

Duane

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So far no luck identifying that ring.  The only ring so far appears to surround the crystal outside the watch.  The crystal seems to be coming out from under that ring.  I can't find a seam or anything to dislodge a reflector ring inside but perhaps I am just not looking in the correct place.

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23 hours ago, DPhillip said:

So far no luck identifying that ring.  The only ring so far appears to surround the crystal outside the watch.  The crystal seems to be coming out from under that ring.  I can't find a seam or anything to dislodge a reflector ring inside but perhaps I am just not looking in the correct place.

notice the very thin line where the crystal meets the case

 

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It is very hard to see that line on my case.  But the ring must be there.  I attached a couple of pics.  One is the top of the case - you can see that the crystal came loose on one side.  I tried to get the same view you did in the other pic.  Not sure if you can see it.  So is it possible to push the ring out from inside? Also what is the best source for a new crystal?  Thanks much for your photo!

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10 hours ago, DPhillip said:

I found an answer of yours on this from 2018.  Sounds like I may need to break the crystal to get it out.  

that was my next suggestion since the crystal is already damaged.

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21 hours ago, DPhillip said:

I will get it one way or another.  I want to measure the diameter so hopefully I can avoid total destruction.  The search will then be on for a crystal and date wheel.

I may have the date wheel and a crystal. but the crystal will have facets .  Finding these are very difficult.

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