mainspring Replacing mainspring on Rolex Cal 1030

[PaulnKC]

Greetings All,

Hope that all are doing well - in this crazy COVID world.

I recently acquired a 1958 Rolex Ref. 6569 with a Cal. 1030 movement. All-in-all very nice and clean for her age - and runs very well.

The winding pinion and clutch wheel had worn each other out - so I found NOS Rolex parts and replaced those. I though the watch deserved the new parts.

It appeared to have been serviced in the last 10 years - because everything looked clean and the oil looked good (and present).

Since the watch seemed to be running well and in good health (other than the winding pinion and clutch wheel) - I didn't do a complete service. I didn't think it was worth the risk.

However, it seems to me that the watch is harder to wind than I would expect.

I did do a full service on a 1215 that I bought for my wife (ref. 6694). It needed everything - but an awesome running movement when I was finished.

The 1215 is of course a manual wind - but similar to the 1030. The 1215 winds lightly and smoothly as one would expect.

The 1030 is "stiff". I haven't taken the barrel apart - but have just ordered some new mainsprings.

Is there anything tricky about replacing the auto mainspring in a 1030? Or is more or less like any modern auto?

Clean the barrel; apply braking grease to wall; fit spring; fit arbor - oil lightly at spring-arbor interface; replace lid?

 

Also - I was only able to find a parts-list for this movement. Anyone know where a tech/service sheet (or similar) may be found?

 

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

-Paul

[JohnR725]

what does the watch look like on the timing machine?

20 minutes ago, PaulnKC said:

It appeared to have been serviced in the last 10 years - because everything looked clean and the oil looked good (and present).

visually it's hard to tell if the watches been serviced? Depending upon the type of oils they may still look good but are they really functioning.

20 minutes ago, PaulnKC said:

The winding pinion and clutch wheel had worn each other out

not a good sign that in a freshly serviced watch even if that's definition is 10 years that these parts of worn out? Why did the parts wear out? May be an indication of a problem exactly what you're seeing.

typically with Rolex you can find the parts list. The only places you normally find tech guides is occasionally someone will be selling one on eBay or if you're a member of AWCI they might have the tech guy. Otherwise finding one tends to be rather difficult.

[PaulnKC]

John, thanks for posting.

9 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

what does the watch look like on the timing machine?

Not perfect - but pretty darn good (in my opinion)

 

9 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

visually it's hard to tell if the watches been serviced? Depending upon the type of oils they may still look good but are they really functioning.

Good question - of course, I can only judge by appearance. The (qualitative) viscosity seems about right for the light oil - that's how I arrive at the conclusion that the oil isn't terribly old.

 

9 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

not a good sign that in a freshly serviced watch even if that's definition is 10 years that these parts of worn out? Why did the parts wear out? May be an indication of a problem exactly what you're seeing.

Exactly - and why I decided that the barrel/mainspring needed investigation/attention. And why I posted this.

Was hoping to get some confirmation on the barrel assembly (that there is - or is not anything unusual to be aware of).

NOTE: The auto-winding mechanism seems to function very well. Which I wouldn't expect if the mainspring was difficult to wind. But I don't have all that much past experience with which to gauge. No prior experience this vintage Rolex automatic.

-P. 

[JohnR725]

5 hours ago, PaulnKC said:

Not perfect - but pretty darn good (in my opinion)

ideally  you want more positions and if you're really nitpicky want something else.  Timing either dial up or dial down is at the least amount of friction will give you the best rate or at least should. Is also nice if you're going to do super minimalistic one crown position like crown down. the reason for one of the crown positions is your resting on the side of the balance pivot there's more friction.. You'll always see an amplitude drop that's normal but you shouldn't see a dramatic drop. So it's helpful for diagnostics to  do this.  Then  if you're really concerned a really want to know what's going on you wait 24 hours and do both positions again. Normally Rolex times all the watches I believe in five positions and then 24 hours later and Works on average between the two.. Because watches typically look best when the fully wound up you don't really get a clear picture..

https://watchguy.co.uk/service-rolex-oyster-perpetual-date-chronometer-6534-calibre-1030/

 

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/16986-rolex-1030-technical-docs-andor-reversing-wheel-oiling-help/

 

 

[PaulnKC]

33 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

ideally  you want more positions and if you're really nitpicky want something else.  Timing either dial up or dial down is at the least amount of friction will give you the best rate or at least should. Is also nice if you're going to do super minimalistic one crown position like crown down. the reason for one of the crown positions is your resting on the side of the balance pivot there's more friction.. You'll always see an amplitude drop that's normal but you shouldn't see a dramatic drop. So it's helpful for diagnostics to  do this.  Then  if you're really concerned a really want to know what's going on you wait 24 hours and do both positions again. Normally Rolex times all the watches I believe in five positions and then 24 hours later and Works on average between the two.. Because watches typically look best when the fully wound up you don't really get a clear picture..

https://watchguy.co.uk/service-rolex-oyster-perpetual-date-chronometer-6534-calibre-1030/

 

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/16986-rolex-1030-technical-docs-andor-reversing-wheel-oiling-help/

 

 

John,

Again - thanks.

Yes, I am thoroughly familiar with timing in all the positions. Was showing the one timegrapgher pic - because it's the on that I had. It was dial down. Dial up is virtually identical with respect to rate and amplitude (which I'm sure you know is where you start when timing in multiple positions).

The one thing that you can see in just one pic is how clean the traces are. That's the main thing. That and amplitude - that indicate to me that it a pretty healthy movement overall. And as you might expect from a chronometer - there isn't a lot of positional variation.

Anyway - I posted over in the NAWCC Watch Repair forum. Hopefully someone there will be familiar with the 1030.

And my yet hear from someone here. Lot's of knowledgeable folk here too. And I think the 1030 was a very popular movement - albeit somewhat old at this point.

-P. 

[rodabod]

If it’s hard to manual wind - is it also hard to wind when the watch is entirely run down? I would expect it to be more likely to be related to the keyless works than the mainspring. 

[PaulnKC]

15 hours ago, rodabod said:

If it’s hard to manual wind - is it also hard to wind when the watch is entirely run down? I would expect it to be more likely to be related to the keyless works than the mainspring. 

rodabod,

Thanks for posting.

I will make sure to check out the keyless when I check the barrel.

Time setting position seems perfectly normal - but the winding seems stiffer than it should be. Albeit a bit lighter when fully run down.

BTW - I did join AWCI at the suggestion of a couple of members (here and on NAWCC). So, I now have access to a bit more detail regarding disassembly and servicing.

-Paul

[rodabod]

There are a few simple tests you can do while the auto mechanism is removed:

- check for play on the winding pinion (which could be the result of a worn/corroded stem, or stem hole, or bolt….) and for play on the crown wheel (in particular if there are signs of wear underneath if it has been rubbing). 

- remove ratchet wheel and check winding action, which takes the barrel out of the equation as it will no longer wind the barrel arbor. 

What can happen is that bad depthing or other sources of friction only start to occur under high load / torque. 

Another possibility is that the auto mechanism is interfering in some way. This occasionally happens on some 1960’s Omegas and leads to a juddering feeling when manual winding.  
 

 

 

[PaulnKC]

1 hour ago, rodabod said:

There are a few simple tests you can do while the auto mechanism is removed:

- check for play on the winding pinion (which could be the result of a worn/corroded stem, or stem hole, or bolt….) and for play on the crown wheel (in particular if there are signs of wear underneath if it has been rubbing). 

- remove ratchet wheel and check winding action, which takes the barrel out of the equation as it will no longer wind the barrel arbor. 

What can happen is that bad depthing or other sources of friction only start to occur under high load / torque. 

Another possibility is that the auto mechanism is interfering in some way. This occasionally happens on some 1960’s Omegas and leads to a juddering feeling when manual winding.  
 

 

 

rodabod,

Thank you so much for this!

This is priceless for me.

I will be certain to follow this guidance when I get back into that watch.

I will also be sure to post an update with what I find.

Many thanks!

-Paul

[PaulnKC]

So - here's an incomplete update (I'll add more detail as I have it).

Removing the auto-wind mechanism seems to remove the "stiff to wind" issue.

So, this will need thorough cleaning and inspection.

And to @JohnR725 's point - I should assume that all the oil/grease has lost it's original lubricity/function - even though it "looks" pretty good.

Thanks to @rodabod - I will also be checking other possible contributing factors.

-P.