Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Howdy gang,

Need help with a little problem I'm having.  Working on a 1930 Elgin 12s pocket watch that had a broken balance staff pivot.  I need to remove the cap jewel so I can test the fit of the new staff in the jewel hole.  I've removed the screws but have been unable to get the cap off.  Looks like it may have been a tight fit from the get go and someone pressed it in before inserting screws.  I included the dime in the picture to show scale of what I'm working with.  There's no gap that I can find to pry on and rodico doesn't work.  I tried some sticky tape but no luck.  Any suggestions on how I can grab it?  Not sure how much effort it's going to take to dislodge it. Don't want to damage it.

capJewel.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These are a light press fit, along with a setting below holding the hole jewel. It should be pressed out from the underside. They used to sell star shaped tools with different diameter brass pieces  that were used for pushing out these jewels. If you have a jeweling tool that's perfect.  But pegwood works fine except for very stubborn ones

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Be very careful. I've broken one before. Your staking tool must rest on the brass chaton, not on the jewel. If you have a Seitz jewelling tool, that's even better.

Over tightening of the 2 retaining screws could have deformed the chaton but I believe that the brass chaton deformed over time due to molecular creepage and became stuck. Some of these pocketwatches are over a hundred years old! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

It varies. Sometimes the screws are on the underside of the balance cock and you'd have to unpin the hairspring and remove the balance wheel to get to it. It's a real PITA. Never understood why they were designed that way.

Except for really cheap and/or cylinder movements you can release the stud, no need for unpinning the hairspring. Most non-shockprotected watches have the hole jewel in the cock, cap jewel set in a disc that holds the regulator, screws from underneath. Really old and pocket watches, screws from the top sometimes; American and Swiss emulators, with screwed down settings for both cap and hole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to update the group, I was able to remove the jewel set by pushing from the hole side.  Both popped out without incident.  I found an Elgin Watchmaker class PDF on line that showed how it's put together.  I want to thank nickelsilver for pointing me in the right direction.

elgin.JPG

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...

I had to remove a cap jewel today and only found this thread after the fact.  In my case, the cap jewel was not so stuck, but it was stubborn.  I wondered about pushing from below as described in this thread, but ultimately was successful popping out the cap jewel.  In the future, I will put my Seitz to work and press the whole thing out.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...

I had my first of these today. I assumed I'd be able to just lift it out with Rodico and & was very disappointed to find that didn't work. I really hoped I wouldn't have to remove the balance from the balance cock, as I had already messed up another one last weekend in that operation (though the 18s Elgin hairspring stud is far bigger and easier to work with).

Anyway I couldn't get it out, found this thread and removed the balance. The jewels pushed right out with pegwood. I cleaned them, and reinserted the cap jewel upside down. This had two noticeable effects: 1) one of the screws sheared off half its head and the other wouldn't catch threads because they could not drive in flush, and 2) the balance would only run dial-down, visibly falling a solid half-mm when flipped into dial up. This would have been a 5 minute job if I had put it together right the first time. Instead it was 25min and I learned some things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was just going to start a new thread to ask a similar question, but since you've already got one, I hope it's okay to piggyback.

I have an Incablock style shock setting from a Bulova movement, and the cap stone is stuck firmly to the hole jewel. It's gunky enough that it stops the balance from turning!

If I don't have anything thin enough to poke through the hole jewel, any other options for prizing them apart? I've tried soaking in solvent and a run through the ultrasonic, then Rodico, then sticky tape.

Sure looks neat, though.

eye.thumb.png.65dd94c28a36dfdd5b93b8d5b0531f6b.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

 I don't have anything thin enough to poke through the hole jewel, any other options for prizing them apart? I've tried soaking in solvent and a run through the ultrasonic

How about the pivot of a scrap balance?    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

How about the pivot of a scrap balance?

I just tried--turns out the only scrap balance I have lying around is from a large pocketwatch, and the pivot doesn't fit in the jewel hole 😕

Turns out the answer was "lots and lots of poking and prodding on a Rodico blob."

Looks more like shellac than oil. I did see a Youtube video the other day where someone used CA glue to hold a cap jewel in place, so very little would surprise me.

But that sure explains why the balance didn't move!

2080421275_RawPhoto.thumb.jpg.1f805a35c9c81d44156787c021f94c76.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Thanks Dell. I thought about silver soldering. Have never done it but would like to give it a go. Do you think to put flux on the butted joint then run the solder in or to maybe brace it with a piece of scrap spring steel?
    • Never and others. Yes like you I do spend a fair amount of time reading the contents of this forum. I find it better that any other. clear, lucid, no Prima Donas, and most of all an easy access without adverts. All thanks to Mark. God bless you mate. You give so much to many of us. What if? No Mark? Hypothetically. A forum. I did run a forum for a few years. Really enjoyed it, but became so engrossed that it did affect my health. I gave to to others to run. Not been back. It was very successful and rivalled a number of large paying sites. No adverts, no others but me. I did ask and listen to members comments and it worked well.    Costs Having a domain name, £10 annually.  Register the site with a forum company, free. Build the site using the forum company guide lines, free. It looked and ran almost the same a Mark's. All the same facilities. The cost was only £5 per month, but counted visits (views). If I recall, it was that price for 5,000 views. Each extra 5,000 views increased the price by £2 per month. Success was my own personal undoing. From £5 per month initially, it rose to £60 a month and looked like increasing. This was 10 years ago. I could not afford that, and asked it anyone would like to take over and someone did. I would assume that this is the price that Mark is funding for us all. His return is our continued comments on the internet about his course, and the fact that many of the big names on YouTube mention him as their Tutor. Those of us who have done, and are still using, his course, benefit. In comparison to other courses, I can't believe how cheap it is, and the value is exceptional. It is the structure that gives the value. Long may Mark reign. Ross  
    • Hi all, total newbie to watchmaking and I've had a bit of a mishap. Just completing level 2 and was doing ok, but I was just on the last part of the reassembly of my ST3620 when the balance end stone shot across the room, just as I was trying to see if I had put the correct amount of oil between it and the balance end, aarrrgh! Been on my hands and knees combing the carpet for 20mins looking for it but to no avail. Does anybody know where I can get a replacement from and what to look for please?? Thanks.
    • Get someone local to tig it ,very easy fix and should only take a few minutes so probably wouldn’t cost much ,or failing that get it very clean and silver solder it. Dell
    • Hi, The winding pin is not split, well that's how it was when I obtained the watch. The movement is front-loaded and here's a picture of where the case screws are fitted. The face picture is before I dismantled it. Quick update.  I've always had a nylon ring sitting in the parts try that I wasn't sure where it went and left it to the last thing as I know it must be part of the case assembly. Anyway, looking at the picture in my last post you can see, just under the winding stem, a white-looking object, this is the nylon ring 🤭 So, I had to remove the dial again and replace the ring. Once this was all back together I placed the movement in the case and realized my initial problem maybe is not a problem as it looks like I can screw the movement back in the case and then place the hands as the dial is nearly flush with the outside of the case anyway so I'll be able to check for alignment. if all is good then just fit the crystal and bezel 🤔 I can't think of any issues with this approach but please comment if you think I've not thought of something. Another lesson learned as well. Take more pictures not just of the movement parts and location 😅
×
×
  • Create New...