Lathe Accessory Help

[Mike1980]

Maybe I’ve got a little carried away but I’ve just bought myself a secondhand Lathe as I knew I would buy one sooner or later. It’s a Boley and Leinen Reform Lathe but I only have the one Collett it came with.
I’ve measured the shank of the Collett and appears to be 5mm, does this sound correct? If so, there seems to be only a limited amount, if any at all, available to buy at that size. It appears that 8mm is the popular size.

Could anyone recommend anywhere I could go to add to my collection 

Thanks

Mick

[jdrichard]

20 minutes ago, Mike1980 said:

Maybe I’ve got a little carried away but I’ve just bought myself a secondhand Lathe as I knew I would buy one sooner or later. It’s a Boley and Leinen Reform Lathe but I only have the one Collett it came with.
I’ve measured the shank of the Collett and appears to be 5mm, does this sound correct? If so, there seems to be only a limited amount, if any at all, available to buy at that size. It appears that 8mm is the popular size.

Could anyone recommend anywhere I could go to add to my collection 

Thanks

Mick

6 or 8; likely 8

[oldhippy]

You say it appears to be 5mm. I expect it will be 6mm.

[Marc]

Have a look here, you may be able to identify exactly what you've got.

Not sure that anything listed correspond to 5mm though.

[nickelsilver]

I'm not aware of any lathe that takes a 5mm collet. Some take P4.5 collets in tailstock runners (Steiner/Horia for example).

 

All the Boley Leinens I've seen or read about have been 8mm. How are you measuring?

[Mike1980]

…..I must apologise. After a reinvestigation and spending more time with with it, I realised that I’d measured incorrectly….it’s definitely 8mm which makes things a lot easier
Thank you all for your help guys, it’s really appreciated.

Mick

[clockboy]

Lathe collects have different threads pitches etc. See this scruffy pic from my wall which has the relevant cross ref info. When purchasing collects from a watch / clock fair always take your draw bar to check the fitting.

A way around this issue , which and I have tried is to purchase the new Chinese  collets sold on eBay. However you also have to purchase the draw bar to match the thread. The problem I found is the draw bar is very poor quality and I had to modify it and also the collets although they work they do not sit flush. If you decide to try this and want a good quality draw bar the owner of pennyfarthing tools makes them to order.

 

 

 

[oldhippy]

43 minutes ago, Mike1980 said:

…..I must apologise. After a reinvestigation and spending more time with with it, I realised that I’d measured incorrectly….it’s definitely 8mm which makes things a lot easier
Thank you all for your help guys, it’s really appreciated.

Mick

In that case your options are open to building a set, there are loads of new and used on ebay. If you buy second hand be careful making sure  they haven't had there jaws forced, easy to tell because if they are not holding anything they don't close correctly. 

[nickelsilver]

Boley Leinen drawbars are pretty open minded, I've used them with Schaublin, Boley Leinen, G. Boley, Bergeon, Levin, Paulson (actually rebadged  Boley Leinen), Webster Whitcomb, and a few others I can't remember. I know that Lorch collets tend to work really only with Lorch lathes, as I recall the thread diameter is a bit big for most others. Clockboy's list is pretty good, but has at least one error (every one I have seen has had errors)- Schaublin B8 collets are 0.625mm pitch, like Ramseyer.

 

In my experience the difference between 0.625mm and 0.635mm pitch (which is 40tpi) is so small it doesn't matter. What matters more is the actual thread diameter- some like to bind up.

[clockboy]

I should have mentioned my lathe is a Star and I purchased Boley collets that work fine.

[Mike1980]

Ok, so I’ve bought some second hand Boley Collets on Ebay.
They were a little dusty and oily but they’ve all cleaned up nice. I then tried each Collet on the Drawbar but none of them appear to go far enough into the Headstock to engage with the Drawbar. 
I then pulled the Headstock out of the Lathe and tried to thread each of them ‘outside’ the Lathe and they all fit fine.
I then noticed that the ‘slot’ running down the side of each ‘new’ Collet is shorter than the slot on the Collet that came with the Lathe when I bought it.

Any help greatly appreciated 

Regards

Mick

 

[clockboy]

1 hour ago, Mike1980 said:

Ok, so I’ve bought some second hand Boley Collets on Ebay.
They were a little dusty and oily but they’ve all cleaned up nice. I then tried each Collet on the Drawbar but none of them appear to go far enough into the Headstock to engage with the Drawbar. 
I then pulled the Headstock out of the Lathe and tried to thread each of them ‘outside’ the Lathe and they all fit fine.
I then noticed that the ‘slot’ running down the side of each ‘new’ Collet is shorter than the slot on the Collet that came with the Lathe when I bought it.

Any help greatly appreciated 

Regards

Mick

 

Mick you will find that you never have enough collets so always keep em peeled on eBay etc.

[Mike1980]

4 minutes ago, clockboy said:

Mick you will find that you never have enough collets so always keep em peeled on eBay etc.

Thanks for the quick reply….

are you saying these are never going to fit my Lathe then?

if that’s the case, how many different types of Boley 8mm Collets are there?

regards

Mick

[nickelsilver]

I've seen and used collets marked Boley, G. Boley (which is the same as Boley), Boley Leinen (different company), Leinen (same as Boley Leinen), and Paulson (same as Boley Leinen) [and many others...], all in both a Levin and a Leinen lathe with no problems. It would strike me as very strange if Boley Leinen made a lathe with the key in an odd location; what happens sometimes is the key gets damaged and possibly pulled out a bit, or just burred, which can bind on collets- or some adventurous mechanics will replace a damaged key but get it a little long or too wide.

 

With the tail of a digital (or whatever) caliper you should be able to measure the depth of the key in the spindle from the spindle face and see if the location is really the issue, or perhaps it just needs to be dressed along its sides and perhaps the length protruding radially so that the collets fit. I have had to do this on lathes where the key was mucked up.

 

Another thing- the bore of the spindle is dead on 8mm*, so the collets are ideally made about 7.99mm body diameter. The keyway in the collet can get burred, and even a tiny burr will then prevent it from fitting in a non-worn bore. It's OK and good to run a very fine, like 6 cut file over the collet body. Don't file it, just run it over, the file will find any burrs or high spots and clean them up. A fine stone works too, Arkansas is a little too fine, a fine India or degussit would be ideal.

 

* This is true for high-class lathes. Some cheaper lathes like Peerless made the bore a little oversized and their collets a little undersized; easier to produce and fewer complaints from ham fisted users when things jam. Boley Leinen is super high-class. Contrary to common belief the taper at the spindle mouth does some of the centering but not all; the fit of the collet body in the bore is extremely important, thus the attention paid to the size by quality makers.

Edited August 7, 2021 by nickelsilver

[clockboy]

46 minutes ago, Mike1980 said:

Thanks for the quick reply….

are you saying these are never going to fit my Lathe then?

if that’s the case, how many different types of Boley 8mm Collets are there?

regards

Mick

No. I have found to complete a full set of collets covering all sizes is never ending. 

[Mike1980]

37 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

I've seen and used collets marked Boley, G. Boley (which is the same as Boley), Boley Leinen (different company), Leinen (same as Boley Leinen), and Paulson (same as Boley Leinen) [and many others...], all in both a Levin and a Leinen lathe with no problems. It would strike me as very strange if Boley Leinen made a lathe with the key in an odd location; what happens sometimes is the key gets damaged and possibly pulled out a bit, or just burred, which can bind on collets- or some adventurous mechanics will replace a damaged key but get it a little long or too wide.

 

With the tail of a digital (or whatever) caliper you should be able to measure the depth of the key in the spindle from the spindle face and see if the location is really the issue, or perhaps it just needs to be dressed along its sides and perhaps the length protruding radially so that the collets fit. I have had to do this on lathes where the key was mucked up.

 

Another thing- the bore of the spindle is dead on 8mm*, so the collets are ideally made about 7.99mm body diameter. The keyway in the collet can get burred, and even a tiny burr will then prevent it from fitting in a non-worn bore. It's OK and good to run a very fine, like 6 cut file over the collet body. Don't file it, just run it over, the file will find any burrs or high spots and clean them up. A fine stone works too, Arkansas is a little too fine, a fine India or degussit would be ideal.

 

* This is true for high-class lathes. Some cheaper lathes like Peerless made the bore a little oversized and their collets a little undersized; easier to produce and fewer complaints from ham fisted users when things jam. Boley Leinen is super high-class. Contrary to common belief the taper at the spindle mouth does some of the centering but not all; the fit of the collet body in the bore is extremely important, thus the attention paid to the size by quality makers.

Thanks for this, I’ll have another look and hopefully get some joy

Thanks

Mick

[Mike1980]

…..this is what I meant when I said the ‘slot’ on the side of the Collet is a different length. The one on the right is what came with the Lathe when I bought it, the one on the left is the one of the 10 Collets I bought off Ebay

Regards

Mick
 

[nickelsilver]

The one on the left is normal, on the right, I've never seen a slot so wide and long on an 8mm collet, and I've seen thousands.

 

Have you checked your key location ?

 

 

[Mike1980]

I could see the key inside the spindle, just about. I’m assuming that I would have to take the Lathe apart to get to it easily though?

Mick

[LittleWatchShop]

5 hours ago, Mike1980 said:

I could see the key inside the spindle, just about. I’m assuming that I would have to take the Lathe apart to get to it easily though?

First of all...whatever @nickelsilversays is the gospel so I hesitate to add much but...

I have purchased four lathes on ebay and have two I inherited and I have taken them all apart and reassembled.  What I have discovered is that there is some variance between lathes.  The width of the key on some lathes will impede some collets and not others.  There are long 8mm collets and short 8mm collets.  But, I have NEVER had the issue of a collet STOPPING before it is fully seated.  So, I am scratching my head over that.  Have you peered into the spindle to see the collet key? 

Can you post some more pictures of your lathe headstock?

[nickelsilver]

I checked my Leinen, the key is rather precisely 18mm from the spindle face.  You can see a few collets here, left to right is a Boley, one simply marked Geneve, Wolf Jahn, Hohnel, two Bergeons, a Paulson, and a Schaublin. Slot width is exactly 2mm except the WJ which is 1.85. Slot length is pretty much exactly the same for all. These are all what are considered "WW" collets, though the Schaublin is actually a B-8, but works in WW machines fine.

 

The long collets LWS mentioned are usually Moseley, and can have either a tapered head or what they call a conoidal which is a curved shape, these are quite rare outside the U.S. and rare there too. Going very far back Boley had some very strange collet shapes and sizes (including long), but again they are rare. The vast majority of 8mm collets will be either WW or B-8 norm, and in my experience both work in any well made spindle.

Edited August 9, 2021 by nickelsilver

[LeonDJames]

I'm having exactly the same issue with a Star lathe and the following collets.

The one on the right seats perfectly. With the one on the left, it doesn't go in past the key at all, so it never even reaches the keyway. 

 

Initially I'd thought that the keyway might be a little narrow, but it doesn't appear to be. I'm going to try and clean the keyway up a little and see if there are any burrs causing issues, either on the collet or on the key itself.

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by LeonDJames

[Mike1980]

I’ve just had a measure and the key sits 15.06mm from the front Spindle Face. Here are a couple of pictures 

Regards

Mick

 

[LittleWatchShop]

I just did a quick measurement on two of mine: 18.5mm and 20mm

[clockboy]

Just use the sheet I posted and it works. The other alternative is to change the draw bar to match the collet.