1951 Pobeda running very fast

[ARubinstein]

Hi all,

I bought an old Russian Pobeda watch about a year ago. It has been running great for a year, maybe 20 seconds slow per day. Well, starting yesterday th in watch just started running super fast. I checked it against a digital clock and it's running a full 60 seconds in 50 reference seconds. So every 5 minutes the watch is running 1 minute fast. In an hour the watch is running 12 minutes fast.

 

So, what is the most likely culprit for this sudden, significant increase in speed? Thanks.

 

AR

[JohnR725]

having a timing machine would be nice?

have you tried to demagnetized the watch? Oftentimes magnetic fields are a problem. then have view taken the back off and looked at the watch is the hairspring stuck together either because it's magnetized or lubrication or something sticky is holding the coils together. is the hairspring where it's supposed to be? Sometimes a watch gets bumped the hairspring will come out of the regulator pins or this basically hairspring isn't where it's supposed to be this is where guessing what the problem is is nice but physically looking at the balance wheel is better.

[Nucejoe]

 Most likely causes are; the last circle of the hairspring coil has got stuck behind the stud or hairspring fauling itself or sticking as which John explained.

Coils should be concentric, level, flat and breath evenly.

Hairspring issues can happen even if a wstch doesn't recieve a shock, simply a screw can come off and get into hairspring.

Its got to do with hairspring,   Remove the back the problem will be starring at you.

Good luck pal.

 

[watchweasol]

 some pictures of the movement front and back would be additionally useful to members, especially those of us without a crystal ball.

[ARubinstein]

Thanks for the help guys. I'll try to take some pics tonight. I'll take a pic of whatever I find when I open her up. 

[anilv]

1. I notice that the stud carrier and regulator on Russian watches are usually a loose fit, it could have been bumped and the timing would be off.

2. A lot of Russian watches have an overcoil.. good for timekeeping but the hairsping needs to be aligned properly in the flat.

Anilv

[ARubinstein]

Hi guys. I have uploaded two images with the back off, the second being a close up.  I didnt notice any foreign objects in the hairspring, but I haven't taken it out yet. In the close up, I did notice a horizontal screw at 9 o'clock was backed out more than I would have guessed it should be ( I guess that's the hairspring stud screw). Sorry guys, I'm just getting into mechanical watches, so I'm not extremely conversant yet.

[HSL]

If you take a close up shot with the hairspring in the center focus you should be able to see the hairspring has been twisted. One inner coil has ended up in the regulator pins which would explain the high beat in the watch, but an arrangement like tis makes it impossible to regulate so you have to take the balance cock off and sort the hairspring out.
Perhaps it gets loose just by lifting the balance cock up.

A picture like tis is better when showing the hairspring.

[Nucejoe]

 I agree with HSL, you should remove the cock with balance attached, the hairspring might just jump back to the coil it was, since you haven't touched the coil, at worst you might have to remove the H/S to sort out.

Could you show a magnified picture of the coil, just detach the balance and cock to show the coil.

Regs 

Joe

[Marc]

4 hours ago, HSL said:

One inner coil has ended up in the regulator pins

Not sure if I agree with this, we certainly need a better close up shot of the H/S for clarity.

This is a Breguet over-coil H/S so regulator is going to be inboard of the radius of the H/S with the over-coil moving back inwards to go through the regulator pins.

It is difficult to tell from the pic, but I'm wondering if the watch has been jolted causing the over-coil to jump out of the regulator pins (there's no boot on these to retain the H/S) and the over-coil has ended up pressed against the inboard side of the inner regulator pin rather than between the pins. Trying to follow the trajectory of the terminal curve on the supplied pics is very hard but it looks as though it may be heading too far inwards. The H/S also looks as though it is slightly displaced towards 5 o'clock, which would also result from this. Am happy to be wrong as the pics do make it very difficult to draw a conclusion.

 

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, Marc said:

Not sure if I agree with this, we certainly need a better close up shot of the H/S for clarity.

I agree we definitely need more pictures because it doesn't quite make sense of it looks bad and there's an over coil something definitely looks wrong.

Then ideally the movement should come out of the case and that's going to be interesting? You going to have to take the stem out and because the way the case screws are in I'm guessing the movement probably comes out through the front. once the movements output the stem and crown back in and get us a picture sideways into the movement.

 

[ARubinstein]

Ok, thanks for the input. One thing to clarify, this picture was taken with the movement in motion. This may account for the HS appearing to be displaced. I'm going on vacation away from home today, so I won't be able to take any pictures or disassemble the movement. 

[ARubinstein]

I've attached a couple pictures.  I pulled balance cock and re-set it and it's now keeping correct time. I think you guys were right, the hairspring was hung up on one of the regulator pins. Thanks for your help.