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Strange Incabloc Hybrid


icius

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I just started working on a Roamer with a ST 96 Movement in it.  On top of the balance cock, the spring appears to be Incabloc, but under the main plate I am faced with this.

 

post-752-0-89052300-1429032150.jpg

 

I'm almost afraid to ask, but how to I remove the cap jewel for oiling on this?  

 

Thanks for the help :)

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That is correct, icius, the pegwood won't harm the jewels and you can use it for removing any old caked oil. It is a standard practice. Be careful with sensitive stuff like the spring proper. If you are not completely satisfied with the result you can always soak the part in solvent for some time and then rinse accordingly. The only trick with the pegwood is that you need to reduce the diameter at the tip enough for it to do the job...a long tip not a pointy short one.

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Be very cautious with the pegwood...you don't want a bit broken off in the jewel hole. Whittle it down carefully and make sure you go in dead straight to avoid breaking the tip.

I would try dousing the jewel hole with lighter fluid and 'wick' it up with a tissue. You should he able to see traces of dirt on the tissue if you're sucessful. Just wick u the fluid don't wipe the jewel as tissue leaves a lot of fibers behind .

Anil

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Thanks guys. Think I'll try the dousing first. I feel like there is a 99.9% chance I will break off a piece of pegwood in there. Not sure if this strange spring is some kind of repair or if this is how it originally was. One of the other jewel holes is a closed jewel as well. All in all I'm not impressed with this design from a serviceability perspective.

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Hi Icius.

 

taking a closer look, could it be something like a freeze plug you find on cars..?

 

I can imagine the washer/ring with prongs to be slightly dished, you insert it with the 'dish' bulging upwards and once in place use a blunt stake to press the inner parts/prongs inwards.

 

There seems to be a lot of room under the ring.. I would try to see if it lifts off.. that jewel hole would be bugging me if I kept the watch and I wouldn't sell it on if I cant get it properly cleaned. If it goes wrong...well theres a lot of ST96 movements out there!

 

a lot of weird stuff around before Incabloc..!

 

Anil

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Give it a soak in acetone for a day to soften the muck, then assemble the balance onto the bare plate. Now put the plate complete with balance in a small jar with just enough lighter fuel to cover it, then blast for about ten minutes in an ultrasonic cleaning bath. The ultrasonic tank should be filled with water, and the jar containing the lighter fuel and plate should be placed in the water. It works for me!

NB. DO NOT PUT LIGHTER FUEL DIRECTLY INTO THE ULTRASONIC BATH!

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    • As I was typing this, @HectorLooi expressed the same idea. It's possible that when a wheel is pushed in the opposite direction it cants a little, or lifts up in its setting. I'd check end shake on everything first, since it's already assembled--I had a Seiko 6139 where one of the upper bridge jewels was pushed up a bit and caused it to behave unpredictably. Then I'd probably take all the wheels out and reinstall one at a time until I found the noise. Also look very closely at the bridge and flat parts of the wheels for wear marks. Look for shiny spots.
    • This sounds like one of the pivot holes has worn and become elliptical. Can you post some photos of the plates?
    • Even after thorough cleaning unfortunately the issue persists. I have made sure that all wheels are perfectly clean, no teeth are chipped, no gunk is left built up on them etc. yet the issue is not gone. When reassembling the movement I of course checked if the wheel train moves freely as that was the suspected cause of the issue before. And the intersting thing is - it does - but only in the "wrong" direction. Driving the wheeltrain by turning the mainspring barrel in the opposite direction as it would turn in normal operation, all wheels spin freely, and continue spinning for a few moments even after I stop providing power by hand. They behave the way I'm used to and have seen with other wheels before. However: When I apply torque in the opposite direction, the power delivery througout the train is not smooth or continuous. While it does turn, there are stages of increased resistance in the train. In addition to this, you can hear a slight "rubbing" sound whenever the trian passes by this point of increased resistance. The sound, to me, is more indicative of a surface rubbing on another surface, rather than the teeth of two wheels getting stuck within each other. Installing the click and putting a wind in the mainspring confirms this same issue, it does unwind and all wheels are powered, yet when the power reserve approaches depletion, it doesn't have enough power to push the wheeltrain past this point of friction. The slightest bump on any of the wheels will free the train, make it spin for however many rotations and then get stuck in the same way. You can do this several times before the power is actually completely depleted. This has really left me dumbfounded. I have inspected all of the wheels, pivots, teeth etc. on the entire wheel train and can't find any traces of dirt, any bent teeth or any warped or out of plane wheels. Besides: If one of the wheels was bent and rubbing up against some other part of the movement during a rotation, shouldn't it be doing this regardless of the direction of the rotation? This is supremely confusing to me and I can't figure out for the life of me why there is increased friction in only ONE direction and not the other. Installing the balance yielded the same result as before the disassembly: the watch runs great for about 50 seconds and then get's stuck when the wheel train get's bogged down. I mentioned earlier that there is a periodic scraping noise that can be heard when the gear train turns fast, this noise is not present when turning the train the opposiste direction. Does anyone have any ideas about which parts of the movement I can check for rubbing? I found no signs of wear or scraping on any of the bridges etc. so what would cause this periodic friction in one direction but not the other? I am very much a novice and have never dealt with such an issue before so I would love to hear what you people think about this. Thanks.
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