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Watch Escapement demonstration--3D printed


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As nice as this is it be nice if someone could make something practical like an escapement model? There's a book out there called know the escapement and there was a model that went with this for teaching purposes. The model tends to be really pricey whatever it shows up for sale. It be really nice if someone could make it for 3-D printing. As it's a really good way of teaching how to adjust the escapement.

escapement model.JPG

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That looks really comprehensive with all the adjustments available to show the effects of changes.

There are some demo ones (mainly for retail purposes) on Cousins, and also a few videos associated with them.  Just search 'escapements' in Cousins website.

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When I printed this thing...I had some problems getting it adjusted.  Most of the issues were related to print settings.  I got it working nicely.  On Thingiverse, people were posting about their frustrations getting it working, so I started helping people make theirs work.  I spent a lot of time at this.

Some dude in CA was following the thread and contacted me.  He wanted one but did not have a printer.  He wanted to pay me to print him one.  I did not want to do it.  This print takes a couple of days, plus assembly.  Anyway, the guy just begged and begged.  Finally, I gave in.  Printed, assembled, and shipped.  He was happy.

Then a month or two later, he found another gizmo (watch related) that he wanted printed.  He begged and begged, but this time, I held my ground.

He found somebody else to print what he wanted but it did not work.  He contacted me again...begging me to fix this broken gizmo.  I said, "NO." He sent it to me anyway.  I tried to fix it, but it was a real FUBAR. 

That was pretty much the end of the story with that dude.  He has the escapement and it works and he got it for virtually free from me.  Maybe I reduced the entropy in the universe...or at least locally...dunno.

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It could be my imagination butI could've sworn that there were a network out there of individuals who would print things for people? I distinctly remember seeing it somewhere I don't remember how it worked but there are individuals with 3-D printers that were willing to print things. Of course they had the silly notion that they probably want to get paid for it. Then a course there is the commercial 3-D printer people they'll print things and they definitely want to get paid.

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13 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

It could be my imagination butI could've sworn that there were a network out there of individuals who would print things for people?

Nope...not your imagination.  It is a cottage industry.  I had something printed that way because I wanted it printed in ABS and I choose not to print ABS in my office.  I do not know if there are printers that will assemble and debug a complete project though.  Prolly is...somewhere in the universe.

 

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7 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

ABS

They say that ABS fumes can have negative impact on your health. The solution is to enclose the printer and exhaust through a HEPA filter.

If the ABS doesn’t kill me, the radium will.

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I fear this is going to go down the path of what happens to the lubrication discussion

The first link reminded me that somebody needs to talk to Lego company they made a big mistake in choice of their material which is ABS. Then I'm going to quote something from the first link

PLA is ideal for 3D prints where aesthetics are important. Due to its lower printing temperature is easier to print with and therefore better suited for parts with fine details.

ABS is best suited for applications where strength, ductility, machinability and thermal stability are required. ABS is more prone to warping.

Notice the reference above the strength machine ability it sounds like ABS isn't total crap?

Then before we can continue minor little problems here? Credibility ease a print ability a lot of that depends upon the user and the printer. So just because there seems to be a belief that one is better than the other isn't necessarily 100% true. Then PLA and ABS and all the rest have a little problem? I was once had a 3-D printer talk with a filament manufacture who pointed out that each letter of course represents a chemical. But does not represent a quantity of that chemical. Which means buying PLA filament from 10 manufacturers they will all be different. The all have different printing characteristics because all of them conceivably will have different percentages of the same chemicals. This is why people into production with 3-D printers will buy a huge quantity of filament because changing filaments even amongst the same manufacturer can be an issue. Then a course you throw in the various colorings that changes everything. Then what about the she nobility and the dust that that produces? Some more had seen that PLA dust because it's a harder filament that dust is more like fiberglass but I'm the skip over that stuff otherwise will never get through at this.

Now with my million links below number three in general favor of PLA but there's a reference to the temperature lower melting temperature means that you can't use it in applications that it's going to get warm. Somewhere one of the links comment even placing it on the – of your hot car might be undesirable.

Fourth link makes you question why ABS even exists at all other than for temperature and it's tougher

Fifth link is interesting it appears to be I'm guessing simplistically if you can breathe Or smell anything that's probably bad.

Link six interesting in that of course PLA is number one. But when you scroll down you see that ABS used to be number one which is very bizarre because  accept the course it's not due to its extreme very horrible the print with apparently according to the articles there's another reason for this link though pay attention to the temperatures the filaments print out and what the hell is this stuff PETG Mostly really good at does predator higher temperature.Then scrolling down we get To nylon little higher printing temperature though and keep it away from moisture.

Seventh link I swiped a chart printing temperatures. Does this have any bearing on our discussion at all probably not. You notice one of the reasons at PLA and ABS are popular are lower temperatures. Then a course ABS came out long before PLA which means the people at figured out how to print with that love it yes I know it's totally insane that anybody loves ABS but there are people that can print with it do a reasonably decent job. There is even people I can print with PLA and not use a cooling fan which I find quite interesting. In a case with a chart showing printing temperatures I wonder if that's important? Then as reminder which I mentioned up above all the filaments are different even to some degree the printers are different so that their printing temperatures can vary by quite a bit even beyond what the chart shows.

The last four links are quite interesting. For instance what is worse than ABS printing? This is where numbers become quite amusing. What you find out is that air pollution produced by cooking in the kitchen is actually worse than printing with ABS except. If they're printing all day long and running a factory in your kitchen and only cooking one meal on the stove to it the most you're going to be equal in pollution. But if you insist on cooking one more meal the cooking will kill you before the ABS and then combined together all of its bad for you so it's just all bad.

Then in case anyone actually makes it this far the next to the last link is really the most interesting and away. Most 3-D printers especially those in print PLA because PLA is so much lower in temperature use Teflon in fact almost all 3-D printers use Teflon somewhere. It's used in the tubing to direct the filament the hot end but because it's so nice and slippery most hot ends use of all the way to the nozzle. That means it's going get hot really hot and if you start printing with those it more exotic filaments it's going in a very hot and it produces very very bad stuff.

 

 

https://www.hubs.com/knowledge-base/pla-vs-abs-whats-difference/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego

https://www.creativemechanisms.com/blog/learn-about-polylactic-acid-pla-prototypes

https://ultimaker.com/learn/pla-vs-abs-filament-what-is-the-difference

https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/toxic-abs-pla-fumes-3dsafety-org-inquires-vocs-60796/

https://all3dp.com/2/the-best-printing-temperature-for-different-filaments/

https://www.e-ci.com/3d-scoop/2021/1/18/3d-printing-temperature-chart

 

https://3dinsider.com/3d-printer-fumes/

https://blog.gotopac.com/2018/10/09/carbon-hepa-filters-for-toxic-3d-printing-fumes-particles-odors/

https://www.fabbaloo.com/blog/2020/3/18/is-your-3d-printer-killing-you-slowly

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2872333/

 

 

 

 

temperature 3-D printing.JPG

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I will stick with PLA...smells good when printing...very strong...worked as a gasoline can lid...pretty easy to print.  My only beef is post processing.  Acetone does nothing to it.  Only sandpaper has been effective for me.

I print TPU when I need something flexible.  Recently I bought a lathe motor that had an issue the way the two halves of the housing came together.  I printed a TPU gasket!!

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37 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

But if you insist on cooking one more meal the cooking will kill you before the ABS and then combined together all of its bad for you so it's just all bad.

I cook on cast iron.  Generally, people think this is the healthy choice.  However....cast iron frying pans have a handle and given that it is readily available on the stove, in the kitchen, 24/7, it is also a convenient weapon.  Just make sure you are not in the kitchen when you make her angry!

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11 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I will stick with PLA...smells good when printing.

Next thing you know somebody's going to tell me that all these years of soldering with lead is bad for my health

The problem is for some of us old timers we started with ABS and have no problems printing with it. But don't worry I have another printer it doesn't have a heated bed so I'm stuck with PLA there.

 

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I inherited an OLD (2013, IIRC) large format 3D printer. It's set up for ABS, but was before the hoods and such. This is the first time I've heard of the fume issue. I thought the hoods were to keep the whole printable volume warm for better quality prints. I have kilos of ABS filament in all manner of exciting colors. The machine needs some serious TLC before it can print anything useful. I think the thermocouple at the hotend has died, and there's a scaling issue as well. I have a number of horologically oriented model files, but haven't printed anything more complicated than a cube for scaling and heat management purposes... One of these days I'll get around to it.

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1 hour ago, spectre6000 said:

large format 3D printer

Does your printer have a name make model etc.?

1 hour ago, spectre6000 said:

I thought the hoods were to keep the whole printable volume warm for better quality prints.

I think you'll find it typically that is what the purpose is.

The first link is interesting especially if you scroll down and look at the founder All of his printers and I'm pretty sure some of the components on the spreader are made with ABS.

Second link is interesting because it points out some problems with all of this. Scroll down far enough it talks about one of the studies that I found up above comparing 3-D printers to frying pans cooking stuff or barbecuing Wernick had a cooking that's producing vapors and fumes. You do want to note that there is a reference at PLA still produces particles not as much as ABS but it's still producing. It does appear to be that all 3-D printers are probably bad for you. I know that the resin-based printers are bad one of the YouTube channels I watch she placed in its I think outside shed.

I was also amused in the second link there is a reference to the attorneys saying we don't want to print ABS is as evil and bad. Then there's things like the electrical systems I have a friend who used to do UL certification. Think any of the 3-D printers could get certified especially the kids.

The other thing the second link brings up is even if your printer is in a box it still producing particles. PLA ABS more but still particles if it's in a sealed box where the heck to all those particles go? We open the door to your PLA printer do they magically fall to the ground or where do they go? Is also a reference to the filters size as the filters may not even built a catch the particles probably suggest it should be electrostatic filter or definitely venting to the outside loot out there.

Somewhere way down in the comments of the second link is a reference to the third link. Looks like my laser printer is evil and bad.

If you going to read anything read the fourth link. Safety hazards of 3-D printers like their hot you can burn yourself. Or the tools used to remove things from the bed are sharp and I'll skip over how I know about that one. Basically keep your fingers away from the Sharp blades. Then you get down to the nitty-gritty of yes ABS is bad but so is PLA.

All of these things bring up problems. As I said before the chemical makeup of the filaments varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Conceivably one filament may be better than another but how would we ever know. Printing temperatures is that change things? Like if you want a decent print usually slow things down if you slow things down you can drop temperatures. If you drop temperatures stands to reason you should drop everything including bad stuff.

So the suggestion is print in a well ventilated room I don't care what your printing with or put the printer someplace else where you are not or don't spend time with your printer. I typically don't I started off and I leave and it's in a relatively open room. Electrostatic filter might be a good thing to have as I think it's better at getting rid of really tiny particles.

So my only warning message is it looks like all 3-D printers are bad don't assume that PLA is good for you

 

https://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/180-original-prusa-i3-mk3s-kit.html?gmc_currency=3&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=EN-US_Search_Shopping&utm_term=4580084406180590&utm_content=prusa-i3-mk3s#

https://hackaday.com/2013/11/20/3d-printering-wherein-abs-is-dangerous/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_printing#Respiratory_health_risks

https://aeroastro-ehs.mit.edu/resources/3d-printer-safety/

 

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23 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Does your printer have a name make model etc.?

It's a first generation SeeMeCNC Rostock Max with a few modifications done by my friend. Came with a desktop CNC, an enormous pile of electronic components, some wood/metal working tools, and a '99 Suburban when they were downsizing to move across country earlier this year.

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1 hour ago, spectre6000 said:

first generation SeeMeCNC Rostock Max

For those not familiar with your printer there is a picture From the users guide. Then the person writing the manual commented that they did come in other colors this was just the color that he had. Then unlike other 3-D printer companies they're still in business and it looks like that on the fourth generation of the printer.

 

 

 

Rostock Max 3D printer v1.JPG

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4 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

For those not familiar with your printer there is a picture From the users guide. Then the person writing the manual commented that they did come in other colors this was just the color that he had. Then unlike other 3-D printer companies they're still in business and it looks like that on the fourth generation of the printer.

 

 

 

Rostock Max 3D printer v1.JPG

Lulzbot is still in business.  They almost went out of business a few years back but were purchased and still going.

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18 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Lulzbot is still in business.  They almost went out of business a few years back but were purchased and still going.

Yes I'm aware that still in business several years ago they had a sale on their stepping motors. As best guess there were switching from stepping motors without connectors to those pre-connected or basically they put the connectors on at the factory. The basically they are giving Them away at really really good price and then you throw in free shipping. Now I just have to get around to doing something with the stepping motors.

But back to yes some of the companies are still around but heck of a lot of companies came into existence and are no longer around. Then of course getting bought out how much the original is still there? Like I can buy an Elgin or Hamilton watch how much of them is still in existence?

 

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6 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

For those not familiar with your printer there is a picture From the users guide. Then the person writing the manual commented that they did come in other colors this was just the color that he had. Then unlike other 3-D printer companies they're still in business and it looks like that on the fourth generation of the printer.

 

 

 

Rostock Max 3D printer v1.JPG

That photo is from the earliest manual that the guy who wrote the manuals still has. Mine pre-dates the pictured one by at least a little bit. I know that's a V1, but it's a late V1, or mine is early V1 or even V0 or something. Lots of improvements have been made over the years, and the guy I got it from made a few of his own. This is the guy I've mentioned on here a few times that made the resonator for the experimental atomic clock upgrade at NIST. I'm not at home right now, and don't have any photos on my laptop or phone.

The desktop CNC, I think, was entirely his doing. To wit, at this point it's nothing but a frame and a few motors. No controller of any sort (it was cannibalized, I think because the cutting motor wasn't torquey enough for metal). I'll have to set it up with an Arduino or maybe a spare pi, and hopefully find some driver code library for it somewhere (I seriously doubt I'll be able to find the time to write it myself any time soon...).

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One of the things that makes this printer interesting is that it is a Rostock? But I was always under the impression that was printers are supposed to have different bearings style these to me always look like a Kossel printer. But I'm probably being nitpicky.

20 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

The desktop CNC, I think, was entirely his doing. To wit, at this point it's nothing but a frame and a few motors. No controller of any sort (it was cannibalized, I think because the cutting motor wasn't torquey enough for metal). I'll have to set it up with an Arduino or maybe a spare pi, and hopefully find some driver code library for it somewhere (I seriously doubt I'll be able to find the time to write it myself any time soon...).

As long as the stepping motors don't draw too much power it's insanely cheap to buy in Arduino-based controller board for CNC. They even have free software for them.

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A ready to roll controller and software is pretty much what I'm counting on. It'll be a long time before I manage to dig up enough bandwidth to do anything more with it... And a slightly less long time before I find the time to do even that if I'm honest.

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21 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

It'll be a long time

As it will be a long time it also means it's pointless to have a discussion because by the time you get around to doing this everything conceivably will change.

Because of at least my guess of 3-D printers everything related has dropped in price. So even simple Chinese C&C machines that a couple years ago what is set you back hundreds of dollars are now in the $200 price range and of course the Ripple effect of cost reduction of controllers stepping motors and everything related.  I will attach an image of what's currently available just so you can see. Then they run the free GRBL Which is the firmware and then there's a free program to run the whole thing.

Then even though all the software is free I went with this Estlcam. A inexpensive program I don't have the exact price per was under $75. I found it so much nicer to use with built-in features like auto leveling that I needed for milling circuit boards.

Then just in case the tiny controller board is too tiny the whole concept allows you to make bigger machines. These controller boards are based on internally having Arduino  which means you can wire one of them up to bigger stepping motor drivers. But the single board down there for around $30 does work really nicely.

https://www.estlcam.de/

 

 

CNC Controller Board GRBL.JPG

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